From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Mon Jul 8 17:25:32 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:26:27 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #49 tariqas-digest Sunday, 7 July 1996 Volume 01 : Number 049 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 01:06:53 -0400 Subject: Re: coats as egos Hello tanzen! >Yes, spectrum of life broadens... The first step in getting control came when >I began to have "guilt" for all the harm I was doing around me, to friends, >animals, insects, plants, rocks... this is when I really went nutz, >woodsong-style, and started to change my ways, hugging and talking quietly to Yes, woodsong IS nutz, but she doesn't do the guilt thing! :) The 'harm' i find myself doing is much less specific... i know that i do harm, unknowingly to many 'fellows' <>... but i do THE BEST I CAN to "harm none"... no guilt! :) When i get lazy, or thoughtless, or lack attentiveness, i do things i know are "wrong" (for me)... and that is when i ask for forgiveness... and i ask that i not be so forgetful... that i can live with more mindfulness... >everything and everybody, treating everything and everybody the way I wanted >them Gosh, tanzen, it took feeling guilty about bugs to make you into such a great hugger?! ;) love to all! nuttysong :) ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 02:00:22 -0400 Subject: Re: snug as a bug in a coat ... Dear Mushin, hope you don't mind but I'm writing this mostly for myself, it's just that you touched my heart with your thought ... >>> When one acknowledges them, looks and investigates them, one learns. And it's as if each layer/level, teaches one about the next. Am I making any sense here?<<< yes indeed you make sense. Killing the ego is a step of mastery that can occour only after having lovingly given birth to that ego ... that is one view the other view is that one has the ego of this earth plane, then one gains the ego of the psychological plane, then one gains the ego of the mythic plane, and then one gains the ego of the plane of the celestial plane, the plane in which we know God through the knowledge that god acquires by our discovering God's qualities in our idiosyncrasies" ho ho! what a raging ego this is, and then there is the plane of the ego of the divine knower AS our intelligence, the ego of meaninfulness and finally there is the ego of the plane in which we see things from the divine point of view the ego of thankfulness ... well now you see it was allways Allah's ego and not yours at all. All the ego's, when perfected are most beautiful and prescious, but to see that you must see them and that means you have to take them off, as long as you are in the coat you can't see it. I just love that phrase "you aren't who you think you are" Asha ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 03:40:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Coats of egos and ladybugs Ever where a coat that's too big for you, Well its kind of loose, cozy, even comftable, But a coat that is to small for you... YOU just have to Toss it away! Kaffea Lalla. ps. Lady Bug..Lady Bug..Fly away Home ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 09:50:05 -0400 Subject: Re: snug as a bug in a coat ... Assalaamu alaikum. ASHA wrote: >Killing the ego is a step of mastery that can >occour only after having lovingly given birth to that ego ... >The other view is that one has the ego of this earth plane, then one gains the ego of the psychological plane... >I just love that phrase "you aren't who you think you are" Dhu'l-Nun said, "Whatevever you imagine God to be, God is different from that." I also apply this truth to my view of the self. Certainly, while living and thinking within these lower planes, my opinions of my self are imcomplete. I am not who/what I think. Yet... Rumi added, "Whatever notion you have of God, God must be something like that, because God is the creator of all your notions." So, in a way, I am who/what I think. I do know. I am that outer layer of coating. I am the ego of the earth plane. But at the same time, if I believe my understanding of my self is complete. If I totally identify my being with the ego of the earth plane, than my view is partial. (Partial not wrong.) This is how I'm currently making sense of this stuff: I don't perceive that we "gain" access to higher planes. I'm suspecting that all of these levels of existance are within us at birth. We possess all seven layers of coats; we are blessed with the potentiality to live and act from all these planes. Therefore, one doesn't remove the coat and recieve a new one. One understands that one's self-knowledge and actions were imcomplete, and discovers a new perspective. It's like - I am, in truth/reality, a seven sentence paragraph. And the meaning of the paragraph becomes fuller as I read each sentence. But the full meaning (Hak?) is not solely contained in the final sentence. In the end, when I complete my reading, I display "thankfulness" for the contribution to my understaning of each sentence. A natural born reader, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:14:20 -0700 Subject: Re: coats as egos Jacquie Weller wrote: > > >> When the nafs are brought under control, perception opens up > >> to new experience, even the enjoyment of fish. > > > >Yes, spectrum of life broadens... The first step in getting control came when I > >began to have "guilt" for all the harm I was doing around me, to friends, > >animals, insects, plants, rocks... this is when I really went nutz, > >woodsong-style, and started to change my ways, hugging and talking quietly to > >everything and everybody, treating everything and everybody the way I wanted > > Tanzen, talking about insects, I mean loving them. When I have a cockroach (ms) > I usually kill it, because I don't want them swarming all over my house, > food, bed. I guess my love is underdeveloped? Please, there are other ways to sense this... love is a growing, expanding thing, from a small drop of water that slowly turns into an ocean of wine. You are love becoming conscious: as the I AM. You are beautiful! > We kill virius that bring > harmful bacteria don't we and well, I want to let the bugs live, but I end > up not having any compassion for them. What is wrong with me I wonder. Nothing wrong with you... you are The Beloved, imagine that! Please... Killing to make space is a beautiful subject for discussion... well after we have had breakfast, washed and dried the dishes. Let's get a context... being a nuclear physicist my career dealt, in the main, with things that the unaided eye doesn't see, very small objects, like atoms and what is contained within... such gave be a respect for tiny things, those things that go to make up bigger and bigger things, like stars. (An astronomer who come at this from the other end, from big to little, stars to atoms.) >From observations it is clear to me that everything in God's creation has feelings, has will, has spirit, and has desire. It also is clear that will (spirit, intention) is the maker, un-maker of things, the transformer. Making a book-length subject into a few short paragraphs: our attitude comes from what we think... after having much success with dissolving small clouds in the sky, the thought came over me, and was not original, as thoughts echo throughout time and space, that peace is possible even in crowded environments... one test for me was with mosquitoes... they love to feed on human blood and can you blame them? Well, mentally, with the help of Allah, I made a trade with them: don't eat me and I won't try to kill you... saying there is other food in the area, we can live in harmony. It worked. That was 40 years ago... so over the years, as love grew, more success with everything that one normally considers game for killing was obtained, all the time praying to my Lord for assistance, for harmony. That is the key, not your will, but Allah's. So today, just as with humans, harmony is achieved with bugs, ants, spiders, black bears, and the like, by helping them find food and safety in places somewhat away from humans... I talk to them just like I talk to you... make friends with them, show them there are other places than our house for their lives to be fulfilled. It works! but only as part of fate combined with your willing cooperation. We each have our work cutout for us. My way may not be yours! Think of the fate of your local spider. Put yourself into her thinking... can you do it? Likely not, I can't! The planet is still a big place... our intentions make such a difference even in killing, if we are compelled to kill for the 'greater good". I've always been impressed with Native Americans with the way they bless animals before killing them for food. We can carry blessings to (pass love over) plants, vegetables, fruits, nuts, everything we eat. Saying "grace" at the table, before eating, is common for most peoples. But the conscious intention is so important... vain repetition produces little or no transformation. Like I said, book-length... this subject isn't scratched! > >them to treat me, with love... all this came about through the blessings of > Allah, The > >Beloved, permitting knowledge of self, Self. It seems to start by simply > opening > >the "heart" and a desire to change our ways, no matter what those ways are > >presently. Fixation likely is the perfect symbol, perfect word, for Lord Sloth, > >which many call Shaitan or the devil. > > Opening the heart and desiring to change...Yes, Yeh like letting go of old > ideas, being willing to step out into new territory.Peace, Also, Kaffea Lalla. Yes, yes... just think how we think the same thoughts each day, and from those fixed, repetitive thoughts, come our words, our actions. Wow, it blows open the conscious mind to think this way... we wonder about habits lodged in the subconscious... they come from training our low-selves (our subconscious minds) with repetitive thoughts, words, deeds. Habits keep us in our place, defeat evolution, transformation. But, many are necessary for humans, creation to function, or so it seems. Allah be praised! O Lord, send Thy peace that we may live harmoniously. Thy Will be mine. Amin. love, love, love, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 07:28:47 -0700 Subject: Re: coats as egos CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Hello tanzen! > > >Yes, spectrum of life broadens... The first step in getting control came > >when I began to have "guilt" for all the harm I was doing around me, to > >friends, animals, insects, plants, rocks... [...] > Gosh, tanzen, it took feeling guilty about bugs to make you into such a great > hugger?! ;) Well, as I recall the perfection of the art of hugging actually came from a huge Jeffery Pine tree... strange from where knowledge comes? As an aside, my first teacher told me to sit at the base of a tree, back touching tree, facing away from tree, for 20 minutes a day until I knew something new. Took 20 days for me to go back and say what "new" I knew. Strange are the ways of Allah! O Lord, send Thy peace that we may know Thy harmony. Thy Will me mine. Amin. tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 10:33:42 +0100 Subject: About Bugs again Dear Tanzen, I like your stories about living in harmony with bugs and your agreement with mosquitoes, I won't kill you (mosquito) if you don't eat me. Talking to insects could be quite interesting. I like Archie's Cockroach that types poems on the typewriter. I wonder if we need a beetle that is a computer whiz? I have a question about fleas, Do you think they will leave my dog alone if I tell them I won't kill them if they leave. Well without some humor I could not survive at all in this earth-place sphere. Harmony with the animals Spider spin your webs outside not in my house Your web is very beautiful in the sunlight on a dew-drop Morning. Have a good day in your garden palace. I am going down the path again To watch the butterflys dance. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 11:39:44 +0100 Subject: You are Beautiful I never remember much being called Beautiful, and on the net I hear it often. I can't tell you how healing, and happy, the Beloved People's words are to me. When you hear negatives, it influnces a person in really harmful ways, but the words from you bring much love from Love. Thankyou for the space you have made for me to be part of this net-family. Love Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: Michael Moore Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:00:04 -0700 Subject: This bug's for you CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Brother Michael, > > >Kill the bug and then say astagfurallah. (Forgive me allah). > >We know we have bodies and bodies have needs. One of those needs > >is to avoid bugs. We do not throw, allah throws. To the degree that > >"we" are throwing; - to that we say astagfurallah. > > What does this mean, "throwing"? > > I have a much different "take" on this than most people. But i'm not sure it > would be tactful <> to present that view here. Maybe if i understand > what you are saying, i can see that maybe we are not so far apart? > > I say "forgive me Allah" all the time! :) But it's usually after i do > something that i know i should not do... > > love, > woodsong Hello woodsong, I was making a reference to the Quran where the Prophet(saws) was speaking to his men regarding killing in battle. They threw spears and threw blows. This is my understanding. Sometimes a tree will fall and squash a bug. Sometimes my hand will fall. Allah will let no bug die before it is time. In the relm of humans and bugs, it is only pride that makes us think that we did the killing. Now if we become overly focused on not killing bugs, dust-mites, bread-yeast, bacteria, viruses, then we are probably avoiding another issue that we do not wish to look at. We must keep all things in proper perspective. If I am walking on the sidewalk and encounger a BUG, I will step over it. If I am in bed and a bug is creaping up my neck, I will squash it. That is my take on it, your mileage may vary. Cheers, - -Michael- ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:16:33 -0700 Subject: Re: You are Beautiful Jacquie Weller wrote: > > I never remember much being called Beautiful, and on the net I hear it often. > I can't tell you how healing, and happy, the Beloved People's words are to me. > When you hear negatives, it influnces a person in really harmful ways, but the > words from you bring much love from Love. Thankyou for the space you have > made for me to be part of this net-family. Love Kaffea Lalla. O Beautiful Lady I really didn't expect it but there the post is. When I read my e-mail I found it... you sent it just because. Thank you for being. You know just what to say to lift my spirits instantly, and brighten up the day. And Oh why... just because! tanzen ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sat, 06 Jul 1996 13:55:33 -0700 Subject: Re: About Bugs again Jacquie Weller wrote: > > Dear Tanzen, I like your stories about living in harmony with bugs and your > agreement with mosquitoes, I won't kill you (mosquito) if you don't eat me. After looking over my recent posts I do feel, because of trying to be brief, that I come across a little coarse... more softness is needed. I never try to make it a "trade" agreement, but try to set the environment so mutual regard, respect, is sets in... a mental picture is painted, through concentration, of all of us working together for our mutual fulfillment... a relaxed mood is set, a non-violent mood, so that we seem to all work together for the greater good. Fear and self-hatred are the only sins which lead to doing harm to the fellows... ask woodsong who the fellows are. I think Murshid (Inayat Khan) is reported to have said, "You serve God by serving His creation." > Talking to insects could be quite interesting. Yes, but relationships with humans is where the true action is, real psychotransformation. Again Murshid is reported to have said: "It is easy to be angel, but most difficult to be human." That is why angels are always trying to be of use to us: they have been told, they know, just what our lives are like. > I like Archie's Cockroach > that types poems on the typewriter. I wonder if we need a beetle that is a > computer whiz? I sure could use several helping with by Unix box. > I have a question about fleas, Do you think they will leave > my dog alone if I tell them I won't kill them if they leave. If you do it in such a way that brings Allah's Will to bear, yes. > Well without > some humor I could not survive at all in this earth-place sphere. A favorite slogan: "Lose your sense of humor, out goes your flame." > Harmony with the animals Our low-self (subconscious) is pure animal. > Spider spin your webs outside > not in my house > Your web is very beautiful in the sunlight > on a dew-drop Morning. That's the spirit! > Have a good day in your garden palace. > I am going down the path again > To watch the butterflys dance. > Kaffea Lalla Jesus is reported to have urged faith in us using, as encouragement, the flowers in the fields and their beauty. Enjoy the wisdom of the butterflies and their faith as they flit from flower to flower. "Pule Ho'opomaika'i" (Polynesian for "to ask a blessing"; baraka bashad in Arabic) Aloha! (means love, hello, good-bye, there are no yesterdays, no tomorrows, just NOW) tanzen ------------------------------ From: Bob King Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 19:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: snug as a bug in a coat ... On Sat, 6 Jul 1996 Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > This is how I'm currently making sense of this stuff: I don't perceive that > we "gain" access to higher planes. I'm suspecting that all of these levels > of existance are within us at birth. We possess all seven layers of coats; > we are blessed with the potentiality to live and act from all these planes. > Therefore, one doesn't remove the coat and recieve a new one. One > understands that one's self-knowledge and actions were imcomplete, and > discovers a new perspective. > It's like - I am, in truth/reality, a seven sentence paragraph. And the > meaning of the paragraph becomes fuller as I read each sentence. But the > full meaning (Hak?) is not solely contained in the final sentence. In the > end, when I complete my reading, I display "thankfulness" for the > contribution to my understaning of each sentence. Muhsin, what a wonderful statement this is! Thanks to you, Asha, Michael, Tanzen, and others for bringing this thread to what, for me, makes a great deal of sense. . . Best wishes, Bob ------------------------------ From: Salikun@vnet.net Date: Sat, 6 Jul 1996 22:01:56 -0400 Subject: Re: About Bugs again Tanzen wrote: >Jesus is reported to have urged faith in us using, as encouragement, the >flowers in the fields and their beauty. Enjoy the wisdom of the butterflies >and their faith as they flit from flower to flower. I also see a theme in my recent (and only) posts: Tawhid! And since we're still talking about bugs. Here's another reason to be kind to our animal friends. Not only are these creatures our brothers and sisters in creation. In a way, they are me. Right? I mean, this inner and outer perception we have, the assumption that I am separate from thou (or them), is simply another "incomplete" understanding. It's my understanding that the saints understand: It's All One! I AM - there does not exist not-me. So, damage or insincerity to microbes, animals, friends or enemies, is actually me hurting me. I am the ark. I floated on the waters in my mothers womb for forty weeks. On board is all of creation. Still seeking the pure, dry, land, Muhsin ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 06:14:21 -0700 Subject: Sunday's Rumi ONE BY ONE our friends filled with joy and quest begin to arrive one by one our friends the worshipers of ecstasy begin to arrive more friends and sweethearts filling you with love are on their way darlings of spring journeying from gardens begin to arrive one by one living their destiny in this world the ones who are gone are gone but the ones who survived begin to arrive all their pockets filled with gold from endless treasures bringing gifts for the needy of the world begin to arrive the weak and the exhausted the frightened by love will be gone the rejuvenated the healthy and happy begin to arrive the pure souls like the spectrums of the shining sun descending from the high heavens to lowly earth begin to arrive luscious and happy the blessed garden whose heavenly fruits spring forth from the virgin winter begin to arrive those who are born from the roots of generosity and love taking a journey from paradise to paradise begin to arrive RUMI, ghazal number 891, translated March 29, 1992, by Nader Khalili. tanzen ------------------------------ From: Frank Gaude Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 06:46:20 -0700 Subject: Re: About Bugs again Salikun@vnet.net wrote: > > Tanzen wrote: > > >Jesus is reported to have urged faith in us using, as encouragement, the > >flowers in the fields and their beauty. Enjoy the wisdom of the butterflies > >and their faith as they flit from flower to flower. > > I also see a theme in my recent (and only) posts: Tawhid! For me, Tawhid is Union with Allah, "Remember Me and I will remember thee." (Qur'an 2:152); is this how you sense it, Muhsin? > And since we're still talking about bugs. Here's another reason to be kind > to our animal friends. > > Not only are these creatures our brothers and sisters in creation. In a > way, they are me. Right? Yes, they are an aspect of you, the really big You, just as you are an aspect of me, and I you, and we, the whole of eternity. > I mean, this inner and outer perception we have, the assumption that I am > separate from thou (or them), is simply another "incomplete" understanding. Yes, very incomplete! Allah gave us each to be different through the gift of free wills, making us "higher" than the angels, and thus by our choice, we can be separate or we can join in Union, we can love. It is up to each of us. And none of us has a right to choose for another. > It's my understanding that the saints understand: It's All One! Yes, saints and mystics... listening to the reported words of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, from my present teacher, and from the popular press, that is the way she understands it: We are One with God, God is One with us. > I AM - there does not exist not-me. And there is not a lot of "me, me, me" in I AM. > So, damage or insincerity to microbes, animals, friends or enemies, is > actually me hurting me. Yes, fellows do not harm fellows... no hurt, no sin: Kahuna slogan. All insincerity leads to darkness, lack, fear, a place of no holy ghost where evolution (psychotransformation) is defeated. > I am the ark. I floated on the waters in my > mothers womb for forty weeks. On board is all of creation. True, for forty days and forty nights we float, lifting much stone so that the waters finally ferment into fine Wine. But the bow has been placed in the clouds, none shall perish. God is the Great Recycler! > Still seeking the pure, dry, land, Just around the corner, Muhsin; mushahada, our silent contemplation does the trick. O Lord, all glory is Yours, we pray for peace, and that we are conscious when You visit us, tanzen ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 08:17:17 +0100 Subject: Re: Bugs Again I think the Praying Mantis could be our insect mascot, like Archie the Cochroach, We could call it what... here could be the first thing the Anonimous Praying-Mantis says "All insects are created equal!"... Kaffea Lalla. ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:27:46 -0400 Subject: Re: This bug's for you Thanks, Michael! ;) >We must keep all things in proper perspective. If I am walking on the >sidewalk and encounger a BUG, I will step over it. If I am in bed and >a bug is creaping up my neck, I will squash it. okay. Yes, me too! :) But, i am praying that i someday get the place where i can remove the bug from my neck, bless it and carry on! .. or even, just simply allow it to make it's way up my neck... <> :) I agree that balance is important (i heard that giggling, you guys! :) ... but, for me, it's an issue of responsibility. I do what i can... with God's help... and only with God's help... I'm not trying to be disagreeable, Michael... i eat bread and breath... and walk on the earth... stuff like that! :) >Cheers, cheers! :) love, carol ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #49 ****************************