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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 297
Today's Topics:
[B7L] hay fever
Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience
[B7L] sqash ladder
Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience
Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Fandom
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
[B7L] Real Fan?
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
[B7L] Curt Holland short story
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 18:59:25 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] hay fever
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-1017175925-ab5Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Sun 17 Oct, Neil Faulkner wrote:
> Una wrote:
> >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The
> >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up areas
> >covered in tarmac.
>
> That sounds like a very good idea, Una.
Actually, city dwellers often get worse hay fever. The pollution levels often
increse pollen sensitivity. I had a friend at Uni who was fine until he went
back to London in the holidays. In East Anglia he was usually fine.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 19:04:41 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience
Message-ID: <000601bf192f$c3c6b480$fb418cd4@default>
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Kathryn wrote:
>Of course, then obedience can become a habit, and it usually is.
>Maybe that's what authority is - the *habit* of obedience.
In all the posts on this thread, I'm surprised that no one's cited that
famous experiment where subjects were duped into believing they were
delivering electric shocks on an unseen person. Most of them carried on
pressing the button, for all their protests at the screams of pain they
thought they were eliciting. Some of them (all subjects were men) even
broke down in tears, but still continued to apply what they believed were
higher and higher voltages when ordered to.
I've also heard of a follow-up experiment where another group (all women)
were required to deliver real electric shocks to an equally real puppy. I
think the theory was that women would be more likely to disobey orders if
doing so could be seen to save an innocent animal from needless suffering.
Apparently not.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:08:24 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] sqash ladder
Message-ID: <380AC767.5A270529@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
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City at the Edge.. should be above The Web.
City is Vila's best episode and he gets laid. Colin Baker as Bayban is
excellent. We see the true nasty side of Tarrant (how anyone can like
him after that beats me).
As to The Web, Decimas, need I say more?
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
Be inconsistent, but not all the time
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:07:03 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Message-ID: <047601bf193f$c9702ff0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Andrew Ellis wrote:
>PowerPlay
>Animals
OK, just for the joy of knowing that it would put 'Animals' in the top three
of a list of B7 episodes (no matter how temporarily).
'Animals' is better than 'Powerplay'. Um. Argument... Tricky, considering
'Powerplay' is one of my favourites. OK: 'Powerplay'; filler; just there to
introduce a new character; irritating bit where they say, 'There could be
someone on the ship that neither we nor they know about!' and then do
nothing to develop this idea. 'Animals': I refer you to the website I
constructed earlier.
Andrew also wrote:
> Space Fall
> Blake
'Blake' should go above 'Space Fall'. 'Blake' is possibly the best episode
of the show. 'Space Fall' is great, but 'Blake' is something very, very
special.
OK - now can I argue that 'Space Fall' should go below 'Animals'? No.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:01:45 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Authority and Obedience
Message-ID: <047501bf193f$c900a540$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Neil wrote:
> Kathryn wrote:
> >Of course, then obedience can become a habit, and it usually is.
> >Maybe that's what authority is - the *habit* of obedience.
>
> In all the posts on this thread, I'm surprised that no one's cited that
> famous experiment where subjects were duped into believing they were
> delivering electric shocks on an unseen person. Most of them carried on
> pressing the button, for all their protests at the screams of pain they
> thought they were eliciting. Some of them (all subjects were men) even
> broke down in tears, but still continued to apply what they believed were
> higher and higher voltages when ordered to.
>
> I've also heard of a follow-up experiment where another group (all women)
> were required to deliver real electric shocks to an equally real puppy. I
> think the theory was that women would be more likely to disobey orders if
> doing so could be seen to save an innocent animal from needless suffering.
Revolting experiments. One of those occasions when you wonder whether
permission to conduct should really have been given by the ethics committee.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:57:06 +1000
From: Kate <shasath@crosswinds.net>
To: "blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Squash Ladder
Message-ID: <380AEEF2.ACCE32C3@crosswinds.net>
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> The Harvest of Kairos
> Aftermath
Harvest goes below Aftermath. Why? Well, have a look at the giant creature of
Kairos, the notion of resin-like kairopan, Jarvik, Sopron, Cally seeing her
parents in the sopron, Jarvik's attitude and Servalan's dramatics. Need I say
more?
Of course, one can say what Aftermath offers us. Dayna, an insight into
Servalan, *that* kiss, sand, horses [yes I'm a horse-nut], Orac covered in
seaweed. That *other* kiss.
Anyone not convinced?
Katrina.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:48:51 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <199910180949_MC2-8970-46DB@compuserve.com>
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Neil wrote:
>So something like 20 per cent of the
> population saw at least one episode.
Hellen, could you tell us about the Bulgarian experience again (aside to
others: Hellen visited us recently and told us that virtually the entire
Bulgarian population saw Blake's 7 because it was on the only TV channel
which broadcast in the evening - but I've probably got that muddled, so I'd
like her more accurate account!)
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 07:54:53 PDT
From: "Hellen Paskaleva" <hellen_pas@hotmail.com>
To: 101637.2064@compuserve.com, blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <19991018145454.25429.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Harriet wrote:
>Neil wrote:
> >So something like 20 per cent of the
> > population saw at least one episode.
>
>Hellen, could you tell us about the Bulgarian experience again (aside to
>others: Hellen visited us recently and told us that virtually the entire
>Bulgarian population saw Blake's 7 because it was on the only TV channel...
Absolutely correct. Virtually everyone have seen Blake's 7 in Bulgaria
(1984/85), because, firstly, it was *incredibly* wonderful show, and
secondly, there was nothing other to be watched in the evenings. ;-) We even
have had a merchandise - pictures, posters (pirate, most probably), in the
time when that sort of bussiness was totally undeveloped and even forbidden
(because it was unwise to like something *over* the Secretary General and
the brothership Soviet Union...). No joke - it was official police.
Channel One broadcasted it in the prime time (8.30-9.30pm) and, according to
the enqire, which I've made 2 years later, 98% of the population had watched
it. 95% had enjoyed it and 3% had hated it.
Now the picture is almost the same - about 6 from every 10 questioned people
answered, that B7 had been their favorite show and every 9 from 10 have
memorised it (up to the names of the heroes). In fact, the most frequent
answer, I've got, was "Aahhh, yeah, Blake's 7! That fantastic movie from my
youth! And there was one very handsome guy, that one with the computers,
what was his name ... Avon!" ... Here usually I am starting to spit snakes
and lizards (bulgarian expression for anger). ;-)
Hellen
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 08:49:18 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <7SjZ8fA+F0C4Ewve@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <19991018145454.25429.qmail@hotmail.com>, Hellen Paskaleva
<hellen_pas@hotmail.com> writes
>Absolutely correct. Virtually everyone have seen Blake's 7 in Bulgaria
>(1984/85), because, firstly, it was *incredibly* wonderful show, and
>secondly, there was nothing other to be watched in the evenings. ;-) We even
>have had a merchandise - pictures, posters (pirate, most probably), in the
>time when that sort of bussiness was totally undeveloped and even forbidden
>(because it was unwise to like something *over* the Secretary General and
>the brothership Soviet Union...). No joke - it was official police.
Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time
television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need
to resist such?
What *did* they think it was about?
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:38:34 -0700
From: "Kinkade, Carol A" <Carol.Kinkade@West.Boeing.com>
To: blakes7-d@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Fandom
Message-ID: <B12052866F7AD211BE530008C7A4C64B0170DE17@xch-hbc-04.co.bna.boeing.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
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<< In America, most people have never even heard of it-including many people
who consider themselves fans of science fiction. >>
Last year a former lyst member, Candace Ma, got a personalized license plate
saying KERRAVN (she tried for BLAKES7, but it was already taken).
In the eleven months that she's had the license plate, she's met 108 B7 fans
who have approached her asking her if the plate referred to Blake's 7.
Amazingly, none of these people were aware of any B7 fannishness. Counting
the 28 fans we already had in our little group, that gives us a sizeable
little gathering here in our little corner of America.
Blake's 7 fandom is here, it's just very silent.
Carol K
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:57:30 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <053301bf198a$f258cb70$0d01a8c0@hedge>
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Julia wrote:
> Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time
> television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need
> to resist such?
Isn't that just fantastic?
> What *did* they think it was about?
Perhaps it was seen as a comment on fascism rather than communism (Terry
Nation tended to obsess about the Nazis a bit). Or perhaps the censors
thought the Federation was positively portrayed.
That was all just *fascinating*, Hellen.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:37:44 +0100 (BST)
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-Id: <l03110705b4311a4e1528@[134.226.96.44]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Julia wrote:
>
>> Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time
>> television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need
>> to resist such?
>
>Isn't that just fantastic?
>
>
>> What *did* they think it was about?
>
>Perhaps it was seen as a comment on fascism rather than communism (Terry
>Nation tended to obsess about the Nazis a bit). Or perhaps the censors
>thought the Federation was positively portrayed.
>
>>That was all just *fascinating*, Hellen.
Yes, what Hellen told us was interesting. I recall that the Chinese
authorities allowed "1984" to be published, thinking that it was an
anti-Soviet book.<g>
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:17:44 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <000601bf1998$13a0ec60$8a1bac3e@default>
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Mistral wrote:
>Hm. If Horizon has only 1700 members out of all the millions who
>watched B7, surely that's not the bulk of UK fandom, then. Maybe
>there are more non-joiners than joiners.
I think its reasonable to suppose that anyone sufficiently interested in the
series to venture forth into fandom would stick with the series after having
first encountered it. Therefore the viewing figures for the 4th Season
would be the most relevant - they would include newcomers to the show as
well as those who had got into it earlier on. 4th Season viewing figures
were a fairly consistent 8-9 million (first time around - I don't know what
the repeats got). Horizon membership peaked at something over 2000. So
about one viewer in 4-5000 went on to join the club. That sounds pretty
credible to me.
Horizon NL #32 gives figures for the UK Gold repeats with a combined
audience (it was shown twice a week) of 130,000, but I'm not sure how
significant that is because not everyone had satellite TV at that time (as
many still don't).
>And I don't, strictly speaking,
>mean Dormice. There are plenty of people who might be passionate
>about a topic and still not see a fanclub as having anything to offer
>them. Particularly if it doesn't put out a newsletter more often than
>every couple of years. 1997? I'm rather glad I didn't waste my money.
That was the last newsletter I got, when my membership expired. There's
been others since. Does anyone know how well the videos sold?
Do we count someone who simply buys the videos and does nothing else but
watch them alone at home as a 'real fan'? I'm not trying to be elitist
about this ('Hah! I'm a Real Fan and you're not, nyaah!') but should there
be a cut-off point somewhere? And if so, who defines it? My set of tapes
went through three or four people, whose level of interest doesn't go beyond
expressing a vague like or dislike of particular episodes or certain
characters. No analysis, no speculation, certainly no pressing urge to
write or read LOCs, articles or stories. Or to join a club or attend a con,
for that matter.
The videos obviously sold well enough to be marketable, but then the same
wasn't true of the short-lived posterzine. From what I gather, merchandise
companies are generally not interested in B7 licenses because they know the
product won't sell. That suggests that whilst there is (or was) sufficient
interest in the source material (videos of the original episodes), that is
less true of spin-off material (the province of fandom). If so, then the
number of people who are passionate (to use your own word) enough about B7
to want to do more than simply watch the source material is actually pretty
small. (In fact I hope it is and remains so, since I don't like the idea of
B7 fandom being commercialised in the way that ST has. Fandom's vigour lies
in the diversity of opinions within it, whereas commercialisation will bland
out to maximise sales.)
What about those people who like the show but don't feel remotely
'passionate' about it?
Sales figures for the BBC radio plays would also be useful information,
bearing in mind that some naughty people will have simply taped it off-air
(as I would have done if I hadn't been at work).
>OTOH, the basic assumption I've seen in posts by several
>persons that the *number* of fans serviced by Horizon is by
>itself an indicator of Horizon's importance to fandom shouldn't
>be allowed to go unexamined.
>
>A hub is a centre of *activity*. And if I understand the definition,
>it would be the Hatters who write and publish fanfiction, run the
>clubs, organize the cons and other fan activities, etc. So the
>Hatters would be those who keep fandom running, wouldn't they?
>And without them, active fandom would seem to be in danger of
>dying out.
>
>My thought, then, would be that the hub of fandom _might_ be where
>there is the highest concentration of Hatters, and where 'Hatterdom'
>is best promoted. And nowadays that may very well be online, i.e.
>the ratio of Hatters to Dormice higher on the net than in Horizon,
>coupled with the fact that the ease and speed of e-mail versus
>Horizon's newsletters or even snail-mail provides more stimulation
>and possibly turns more Dormice into Hatters.
An interesting proposition. I think the relative density of Hatters
compared to Dormice is probably consistently higher outside the UK, and
almost certainly so online rather than off. The Hub of Fandom, as I would
define it, will be where fandom is most organised, most visible (both
publicly and within fandom itself), where its co-ordinators are most
influential, and where the recruiting base for new fans is largest. To take
the last first, the UK is probably the only country in the world (bar Eire
and perhaps those european countries immediately over the Channel) where
there is anything close to universal public awareness of the show. (There
are certainly fans in Eire, a few at least in the Netherlands, but I don't
know of a single one in the whole of France. Levez vous vous, mes gars?)
Horizon takes an aggressive attitude to hauling in new blood, plugging
itself at every available opportunity (including nationwide television).
Its tentacles also spread out across international fandom (with
representation at quite a few US cons, for example). At one point it had
more US members alone than the total number of people on this Lyst. So the
visibility is there.
As for influence, a post on this Lyst will reach 300 people. Something in a
Horizon newsletter will reach 1700. An article or newsflash on a website
can potentially reach many more, but only those who are both online and
sufficiently active to go looking for it. At the end of the day, online
material can only be available to online fans, whereas offline material is
potentially available to everyone. Online is exclusive, offline is
inclusive.
I'd agree that active fans are more likely to make the effort to go online,
though not in every case (one of my regular zine contributors flatly refuses
to do so), and I'd say this shift to cyberspace contributed pretty heavily
to, for one thing, the death of AltaZine (possibly a good thing, actually).
It also seems to have had a negative effect on zine sales, if I understand
Judith P correctly. But I'm not so sure that this represents a triumph for
online fandom, since there is, I think, a very real danger of writing off
the passive fans, albeit unintentionally, and effectively discounting their
very real, very valid but essentially invisible presence in fandom. There
were a lot of Dormice at Deliverance, and I think several hundred people
getting together for an enjoyable and memorable weekend is arguably a far
greater achievement for fandom than a handful of people having an in-depth
discussion on why Avon stayed aboard the Liberator (to pick a current Lyst
thread).
If you define the hub as the centre of -activity-, then the case for
promoting the Net becomes stronger. This Lyst becomes a viable contender,
since there is probably a higher density of B7 discussion here, day for day,
than there ever has been anywhere outside the ephemeral confines of a
convention bar (where B7 tends not to get discussed much anyway). But such
fannish activity is not, at least as I see it, the totality of fandom - you
start running into elitist waters again, and I don't want to get my feet
wet.
>Just thoughts...
But interesting ones.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 19:55:20 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <005701bf199d$43cf9260$8a1bac3e@default>
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Julia wrote:
>Let me get this right - communist Bulgaria showed B7 on prime time
>television? Terry Nation's rant on totalitarian governments and the need
>to resist such?
>
>What *did* they think it was about?
Some time back in the 70s/early 80s the BBC made a series called, I think,
'Hawkmoor', a mediaeval romp about Twm Sion Cati, the Welsh Robin Hood. (My
spelling is suspect, BTW). One of the countries to eagerly snap it up was
the German Democratic Republic. The authorities there admired its
presentation of the proper revolutionary spirit or some such.
My favourite tale of western TV sales to the eastern bloc was Anglia
Television's success with The Private Life of the Kingfisher. It was a huge
hit in the USSR - apparently the Russians go nuts over wildlife programmes.
A few years later Anglia followed up with The Private Life of the Starling.
Naturally they sent a copy off to Moscow, only to have it promptly returned.
Apparently some KGB lackey got Starlings confused with Stalin...
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 15:18:34 -0400
From: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@access.mountain.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <s28LOOUvEw211XO5mbfBy0v4mIZX@4ax.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Mon, 18 Oct 1999 09:17:44 +0100, you wrote:
>Do we count someone who simply buys the videos and does nothing else but
>watch them alone at home as a 'real fan'?
I'd say someone who buys all the videos is a "real fan", and so
would be someone (like me) who went to the effort of renting a
second VCR and making copies of a friend's OTA tapes.
Someone who just watches someone else's tapes probably wouldn't
be, unless they go back and rewatch episodes regularly.
>As for influence, a post on this Lyst will reach 300 people. Something in a
>Horizon newsletter will reach 1700. An article or newsflash on a website
>can potentially reach many more, but only those who are both online and
>sufficiently active to go looking for it. At the end of the day, online
>material can only be available to online fans, whereas offline material is
>potentially available to everyone. Online is exclusive, offline is
>inclusive.
Nonsense. Online material is as "potentially available" to
everyone as offline material is. All people have to do to see
the online material is to go where it is -- that is, online, say
through a cybercafe or a public library terminal, if they don't
have their own computers. I'll never see that hypothetical
Horizon article, because I don't go to places where I might see a
Horizon newsletter. It's exactly the same thing. (Yes, I could
subscribe to Horizon and receive their newsletter. And someone
offline could subscribe to an ISP, too. Again, it's exactly the
same thing.)
> I think several hundred people getting together for an enjoyable and memorable
> weekend is arguably a far
>greater achievement for fandom than a handful of people having an in-depth
>discussion on why Avon stayed aboard the Liberator (to pick a current Lyst
>thread).
That just reflects your bias towards offline activity. Several
hundred people are on this list, ergo, several hundred people
were "passively participating" in the thread being carried on by
a handful of people, just as much as several hundred people were
passively participating in that convention. Some of them may not
have bothered to read the thread, but then some of the people at
that convention may not have found it either enjoyable or
memorable, either.
--
Meredith Dixon <dixonm@access.mountain.net>
Check out *Raven Days*, for victims and survivors of bullying.
And for those who want to help.
http://web.mountain.net/~dixonm/raven.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 11:17:03 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <jAr$4pAfQ2C4Ewtt@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <l03110705b4311a4e1528@[134.226.96.44]>, Murray Smith
<mjsmith@tcd.ie> writes
>Yes, what Hellen told us was interesting. I recall that the Chinese
>authorities allowed "1984" to be published, thinking that it was an
>anti-Soviet book.<g>
>
<Howls with laughter>
All totalitarian governments look the same in the dark - but obviously
not to each other.
I suppose those of one flavour could see B7 as being a criticism of
another, rival, flavour. The one that fascinated me was that apparently
several countries of varying degrees of democracy have been decidedly
nervous about showing a series that puts the case for violent overthrow
of a repressive government if peaceful methods fail. Although B7
certainly wasn't the only BBC production to be sat on for fear of it
giving people ideas - _House of Cards_ was reportedly bought by French
television and then put in the attic when it was considered too close to
real life.
--
Jet-lagged Julia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 16:13:52 -0500
From: Reuben Herfindahl <rherf@tursso.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Real Fan?
Message-ID: <16D5E9ABE65ED311A6DA00A0C9DD630D0133A4@STPNT4>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
<delurking for a moment here>
A "real fan" I have always thought is anyone who takes the time to discuss
the series with someone else, or try to get someone else into the series.
Someone, with whom discussion levels go farther than "Animals stinks!".
Personally I've never been in a fan club for anything other than Star Trek
(in the 80's) and I guess I'm not really interested in joining one. In that
sense I'm pretty much just an "online fan". I'd love to hit conventions and
the like, but the odds of there being a B7 convention in Minneapolis is
pretty slim.
</re-entering lurk mode>
Reuben
reuben@reuben.net
http://www.reuben.net/blake/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 14:00:47 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <EOTW7TB$p4C4Ewow@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <s28LOOUvEw211XO5mbfBy0v4mIZX@4ax.com>, Meredith Dixon
<dixonm@access.mountain.net> writes
>Nonsense. Online material is as "potentially available" to
>everyone as offline material is. All people have to do to see
>the online material is to go where it is -- that is, online, say
>through a cybercafe or a public library terminal, if they don't
>have their own computers.
I haven't been to my public library since I bought a modem (the two are
connected, although the former is also connected with one of the reasons
I bought a modem), but as far as I'm aware it doesn't have an internet
terminal. There's apparently a cybercafe in town, I presume it charges
about the same as the one I used, briefly, while temporarily parted from
my modem. Very briefly, at a pound for ten minutes, with a slow and
unreliable link.
It's easy to say "potentially available". Easy in practice? Well, I
found "fandom" off the back of a video, and by buying a prozine off the
newsagent's shelf. I looked for the prozine specifically so I could
check out the con listings that I assumed would be in it. I couldn't
afford net access at the time, my search there consisted of a fast hunt
around Yahoo when I had the chance to use someone else's academic
access. My first six months of reading the list involved the monthly use
of a floppy and ftp. Compulsory lurkerdom...
It is *still* much easier and cheaper for the typical UK fan to pick up
a copy of SFX, Cult TV, etc and find Horizon's ad in the back than it is
for them to find us lot here. More Brits have access to newsagents than
they do to the net. Many more. And then there's the satellite channel
repeats, with Horizon's ad listed in the teletext page of fan clubs. Con
goers don't all have easy net access, but a lot of them pick up flyers,
including Horizon's. I know they pick up Horizon's flyers, because I've
handed out enough of them when manning Judith's table in the dealers'
room. (You want to see heavy duty evangelising, try watching some poor
unsuspecting Trekker who's stopped to look at Judith's table and asked
"What's this show?":-)
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:09:45 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
Message-ID: <380BE0F9.4BF6@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Said Penny:
>
> He wanted the Liberator. Treasure-hold, costume-room, awesomely advanced
> Altazoid technology and all. The 'new-life-on-earth' bird in the hand must
> have paled dreadfully in comparison.
>
... Altazoid... the Curiously Strong computer-enslaved race.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 20:16:13 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
Message-ID: <380BE27D.53E3@jps.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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>
> Una wrote:
> >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The
> >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up areas
> >covered in tarmac.
>
Suit yourself.
I prefer to live without being covered in tarmac. Seems a trifle
uncomfortable.
--Avona.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 18:45:36 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>, b7@barbarapaul.com
Subject: [B7L] Curt Holland short story
Message-ID: <u68cGICA18C4EwvC@jajones.demon.co.uk>
Review of the latest Curt Holland story - for those who don't know, Curt
Holland is an Avon avatar who appears in several mystery books by
mystery and SF writer (and B7 fan) Barbara Paul. More details on the
Holland and Avon page at Barbara's website,
http://www.barbarapaul.com/holland.html
Yes, Judith, you can have it for the book review page.
Clean Sweep by Barbara Paul
In _A New York State of Crime_, 1999, ISBN0-373-26317-1
A short story outing for Curt Holland, mystery man with a shady past,
high grade computer skills, and a curious resemblance to our favourite
hacker. No Marian Larch this time, just Holland along with his employees
Tuttle and Andre Flood.
Holland discovers by chance that his agency has been used to gather
information for a sweepstakes scam. Holland does not like being played
for a patsy. The story details his investigation into the scam and his
means of revenge. It's a nice insight into Holland's mind, focusing on
his peculiar morality. For all his pragmatism and contempt for starry-
eyed idealists, Holland has his own sense of right and wrong, and he
rights a few wrongs in the course of this story's 27 pages. I enjoyed
it, both as a mystery short story and as a piece of Avon drool.
And I did like Tuttle's comment on the opening page, "Mary Sue has
become my icon for self-restraint." :-)
--
Jetlagged Julia
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:03:10 +0200
From: "Nicola Rowe" <nrowe@gwdg.de>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <000201bf19f6$774011c0$db174c86@frithabl>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
An: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Gesendet: Montag, 18. Oktober 1999 10:17
Betreff: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
> Mistral wrote:
> To take
> the last first, the UK is probably the only country in the world (bar Eire
> and perhaps those european countries immediately over the Channel) where
> there is anything close to universal public awareness of the show.
Perhaps you could amend that sentence to read "... the only country in the
northern hemisphere."
I know it ran at least three times in NZ, but it may well have been
broadcast much more frequently. I don't know when it initially ran in NZ,
but I was introduced to it by a friend in 1987/88. She'd seen the series
earlier in the 80s, but that may not have been its first time on air. Once
the NZ broadcasting industry deregulated (around 1990, I think), it was
picked up regionally, to the joy of all fans, since the regional stations
didn't waste money blackaddering(*) their programmes. I know it ran on the
Canterbury regional station at least once. Things tend(ed?) to run *over*
and *over* and *over* again in NZ, so it may well have run a good many times
in total. (Are there any NZers on here who know?) At any rate, I think most
(though maybe not quite all) of us have heard of it.
Nicola
(*) to blackadder (v.; NZ slang): to mutilate a TV programme by lopping
either (i) the best bits; or (ii) random chunks out of it, in order to make
it fit within a shorter time slot than that for which it was originally
filmed. Coined after TVNZ's outrageous response to an increase in the number
of ad breaks per hour, to which a long-awaited Rowan Atkinson show fell
first victim.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 22:18:31 +0200
From: "Nicola Rowe" <nrowe@gwdg.de>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fandom... online vs in person
Message-ID: <000301bf19f6$785be200$db174c86@frithabl>
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charset="us-ascii"
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Meredith Dixon <dixonm@access.mountain.net>
An: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
> I'd say someone who buys all the videos is a "real fan", and so
> would be someone (like me) who went to the effort of renting a
> second VCR and making copies of a friend's OTA tapes.
> Someone who just watches someone else's tapes probably wouldn't
> be, unless they go back and rewatch episodes regularly.
The discussion seems to be conflating "being a fan" (which surely doesn't
involve interacting with anyone else) with "participating in organised
fandom".
(Apologies if this is the distinction between 'Hatters' and 'Dormice' - I've
looked for a definition in the posts coming through, but either I've missed
it or they're established terms with which I'm unfamiliar!)
When did you start thinking of yourselves as "fans" of B7? I didn't until I
went to a convention in Christchurch (NZ) in the early 90s and someone asked
me how long I'd been a fan. I was about to reply that I didn't think I would
call myself a fan at all, when it occured to me that - since I was at a con,
after all - this might have the ring of implausibility. But I'd never
thought of myself as a fan, even though a friend and I had been writing
radio plays, stories & crossovers, and making B7 prop ornaments & objects,
for years. I think I thought that fandom, which is really only the state of
being a fan, was something official and organised, with stamps and seals and
committees. It isn't, of course.
Nicola
--------------------------------------------------------
Where are we going, and why am I in this handbasket?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 07:51:45 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #296
Message-ID: <06d301bf1a00$143716a0$0d01a8c0@hedge>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Helen Krummenacker wrote:
> > Una wrote:
> > >Well, for those of us with hayfever, this is a very serious point. The
> > >outdoors is just plain nasty and horrid. Long may I live in built-up
areas
> > >covered in tarmac.
> >
> Suit yourself.
> I prefer to live without being covered in tarmac. Seems a trifle
> uncomfortable.
Admittedly, there is a brief stinging sensation when it first goes on, but
after that it's worth it. Cyclists and even taxis just roll off.
Una
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #297
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