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blakes7-d Digest Volume 99 : Issue 130
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #128
Re:[B7L]Mission To Destiny
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Re: The Syndeton Experiment
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #128
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
[B7L] Con pix
Re:[B7L]Mission To Destiny
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
[B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
[B7L] Dark drama
Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
[B7L] photo copyright
Re: [B7L] The Syndeton Experiment
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
[B7L] OT: Thanks for being yourselves
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
Re: [B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Songs and characters
Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
[B7L] Smurfs (was Re: Dark drama)
Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:40:04 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #128
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0412174004-313Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 12 Apr, Deborah Day wrote:
> Judith Proctor wrote that Avon did not enjoy inflicting pain. I remember
> that in Mission to Destiny he hit the woman (Sara?) and said he enjoyed it,
> so perhaps it was true.
AVON: You'd better get her out of here, I really rather enjoyed that.
I think it was more revenge than sadism. After all, she had been trying to kill
the. Avon tends to take it personally when people try to kill him.
Also, he asks them to take her away. This suggests that he had no desire to
inflict further pain on her.
He also says it in a rather self-deprecating manner.
The impression I got frm the Syndeton Experiment was of something more
reminsicent of the crimmos in 'Hostage'.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 18:42:09 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re:[B7L]Mission To Destiny
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0412174209-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 12 Apr, Julie Horner wrote:
> Deborah said:
>
> >Judith Proctor wrote that Avon did not enjoy inflicting pain. I remember that
> >in Mission to Destiny he hit the woman (Sara?) and said he enjoyed it, so
> >perhaps it was true.
>
> I had always assumed that it was the struggle with her that he enjoyed
> rather than the act of causing pain.
Now that sounds plausible. Remember Pella? He certainly enjoyed struggling
with her. (Oh, it's good, Pella, but not good enough - a double entendre if
ever there was one)
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Fanzines for Blake's 7 and many other fandoms, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news,
Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:30:46 -0600
From: kmwilcox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (K. Michael Wilcox)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <199904121827.UAA26448@samantha.lysator.liu.se>
Lona wrote:
> Joanne wrote:
> >>Because the Cracker-wannabe Fitz has received an airing on Australian
> television, a critic for the Sydney Morning Herald looked at this
> phenomenon, mentioning along the way that Fawlty Towers *has* been remade
> for American television. According to the SMH writer, it was called Newhart
> and screened some years ago (in the US, at least - don't know about anywhere
> else) but, unlike Fitz, was made without John Cleese's co-operation.<<
> I have to wonder about this, really, and whether the SMH reporter has ever
> seen NEWHART because, other than the settings and having husand and wife
> proprietors, I can think of absolutely no similarities between that show and
> FAWLTY TOWERS. It's like saying the 80s night-time soap HOTEL was based on
> FAWLTY TOWERS because they were bot set in hotels...
Exactly, though people do make such leaps of illogic all too often.
[Insert frownie here]
It's reached the point where I cringe at the mere use of the term "rip-
off", though it is sometimes amusing to see the amount of venom released
with complete disregard for reality.
> Perhaps the reporter was thinking of AMANDA'S or AMANDA'S PLACE (can't
> recall exact title) from a few years ago, which was widely acknowledged to
> be based on FAWLTY, only removed to the California coast with a female
> proprietor.
It was "Amanda's" starring Bea Arthur somewhere between "Maude" and "Golden
Girls". It didn't last long. The new one, an acknowledged remake (complete
with appropriate credit) is called "Payne" and stars John Larroquette as (I
kid you not) Royal Payne and JoBeth Williams as his wife Constance. The
most recent episode featured Royal's attempt to create a Gourmet Night.
It didn't have a gay chef (just a violent one with a bad ticker), but it did
have Royal confusing a critic with a prostitute.
K. M. Wilcox
Who once had to sit back and listen to a guy lecture that any show set in
space _had_ to be a rip-off of "Star Trek".
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:11:06 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <007401be8527$aed891c0$4f18ac3e@default>
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Re Avon's remark on beating up Sara, I don't think we need take it too
literally about his enjoying it. As a man unaccustomed to engaging in
physical violence (as he was at that time) he would have been riding on an
equally unaccustomed adrenalin high - that, rather than the fisticuffs per
se, would be the source of his exhiliration.
I can't help thinking that being dragged in with Blake led Avon to discover
that he did rather enjoy the adrenalin rush, and that was one of the reasons
he stayed on Liberator rather than disappear into safe but boring
reclusivity.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:19:58 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <007501be8527$b1905ec0$4f18ac3e@default>
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Penny 'the Poodle' Dreadful wrote:
+AD4-I think when we touched upon this topic here some months ago Neil had an
+AD4-even better explanation than that. (Neil? Where are you, Neil? You haven't
+AD4-killfiled me for that +ACI-great big frontal lobes+ACI- crack, have you, Neil?)
Oooh, it was tempting... But nah, I've just been hard at work. And I'm a
Grade One Blowmoulder now. Yay....
Travis' betrayal of the entire human race - I covered this in Wit and Wisdom
of the Dead (in Star Three). Basically, it more or less boiled down to
Travis thinking that the entire human race had betrayed -him-. So he was on
a revenge spree, until the Lurgen brainchip talked him out of it (whetting
your appetite in case you've not read the story. As a Travis fan you might
well like it).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:58:24 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <007801be8527$b55c5ae0$4f18ac3e@default>
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Mistral wrote:
+AD4-Although, as far as comparing Vila to pop musicians goes, he's always
+AD4-reminded me of Phil Collins. I wonder if Vila would enjoy the drums?
There's
+AD4-a fun thought. Recast our heroes as a rock band -- who plays which
+AD4-instrument? Avon on synths and Cally on bass guitar? Jenna 'flying' on lead
+AD4-guitar? And Blake doing his best James Brown out front? (Gan can throw the
+AD4-cape over him and lead him off stage.) Which leaves Tarrant for another
+AD4-guitar and Dayna and Soolin for backup singers, with Dayna occasionally
+AD4-filling in on harp and percussion, and Soolin as accessory keyboards. How
+AD4-about it? +ADw-g+AD4-
Reminds me of how a couple of years ago Horizon set a competition to
reformat B7 as another kind of TV series or something. I got the strange
idea of turning all four seasons into the history of a rock group,
constantly changing name and style to suit the times. Fortunately I never
finished it, but just as tasters:
1st Season/mid-60s
Travis exerted a clear influence over the flurry of singles that came in the
next few years, particularly 'Centero Cantata (Won't Get Tired of Waiting
for You)' and 'That Girl Ain't What She Seems To Be'. His attempts to
control the band were, however, noticeably limited on the album 'Sinofar Her
Majesty Requests', the eerie, haunting quality of which is generally
attributed to Phil Spectre.
3rd Season/early 70s
The band formally disbanded shortly after the disastrous Star One free
festival, to pursue solo careers in the wilderness. In the immediate
aftermath, Avon had a successful duet with Dayna Mellanby, 'Don't Go Seeking
My Heart.' He then rescued Cally and Vila from a paralysing contract with
Cannibal Records and, together with Del Tarrant, a former star of the FSA
label, tried to rebuild his career under a variety of guises, including Avon
Stardust And The Big Red Spiders, Studs And The Bang-Gang (whose only
significant release was 'Thaarn In My Side'), and Mislayed, who had a
respectable hit with 'Kum and Kure the Klonez'. But glitter pop was not
really their thing, and they desperately needed something more substantial
to restore their credibility.
Just a string of atrocious puns, really (such as Fantastic Captain Travis
and the Moondust-Spangled Mutoids releasing an album called 'Don't Shoot Me,
I'm Just Following Orders', and Olag Gan dying at the end of the Pressure
Point world tour - he was fatally crushed by one of the Doors).
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:28:17 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: The Syndeton Experiment
Message-ID: <007701be8527$b3a7f420$4f18ac3e@default>
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Murray wrote:
+AD4- I have to conclude that it is +AF8-far worse+AF8- than 'The Sevenfold
+AD4-Crown', because it violates the canon of the series in a huge way. One of
+AD4-the most obvious examples is with syndeton, which powers the drives of
+AD4-starships. The problem is that no mention was made of syndeton in the
+AD4-entire series. According to 'Stardrive', plasma was the substance used.
+AD4-Also, the Scorpio has Dr. Plaxton's photonic drive, using a fuel (light)
+AD4-that costs nothing. Why, then, would the B7 crew use such an expensive fuel
+AD4-such as syndeton.
The plasma reference seems to be exclusive to Stardrive. It would make
sense (sort of) for a sublight manoeuvre drive to use plasma, but Follett
compares it directly with the supralight photonic drive, so presumably he
envisaged the plasma drive governing FTL travel as well.
There are several references to 'neutron drives' in eg Deliverance and Star
One, and according to Jenna the London was fitted with a 'hyperdrive'.
I think the best thing scriptwriters can do with physics-bending widgets
like FTL drives is just assume that they work and not go into details as to
how.
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 21:21:46 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <007601be8527$b250a180$4f18ac3e@default>
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Vila? Sleazy?
Since when has Vila held a ministerial post in a Conservative government?
Neil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:42:56 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V99 #128
Message-ID: <qn6NhFAAShE3EwSO@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <007901be84d1$ce328040$4190bc3e@oemcomputer>, Deborah Day
<d.day@ukgateway.net> writes
>Judith Proctor wrote that Avon did not enjoy inflicting pain. I remember
>that in Mission to Destiny he hit the woman (Sara?) and said he enjoyed it,
>so perhaps it was true.
>
As always with Avon, it is wise to study the tone of voice and
situation, not just the words.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:25:49 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <dyFQUaA9ikE3EwEO@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <199904121827.UAA26448@samantha.lysator.liu.se>, K. Michael
Wilcox <kmwilcox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> writes
>Who once had to sit back and listen to a guy lecture that any show set in
>space _had_ to be a rip-off of "Star Trek".
>
Presumably this includes Dr Who (first broadcast 1963).
Yes, I've heard that particular piece of nonsense as well, although not
in circumstances where I couldn't say the guy was talking a load of
fetid dingo's kidneys. It gets particularly annoying when this is
extended to saying that any tv SF must be a rip-off of Star Trek. I
personally find it difficult to believe that Quatermass or the 1954 BBC
production of 1984 are rip-offs of Star Trek.
Has anyone else seen that production of 1984? A superb example of the
chilling nightmare genre of British SF, and I suspect it had some
influence on Terry Nation.
Back to Dr Who - who else gets annoyed with "Roddenbury was God"
Trekkers wittering on about what a wonderful invention the borg are?
Anyone would think that the concept of a cyborg race intent on ruling
the universe was a novel idea.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 08:40:21 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <23zK1DAlPhE3EwwN@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <3711AFB3.28C9D8DB@ptinet.net>, mistral@ptinet.net writes
>Although, as far as comparing Vila to pop musicians goes, he's always
>reminded me of Phil Collins. I wonder if Vila would enjoy the drums? There's
>a fun thought. Recast our heroes as a rock band -- who plays which
>instrument? Avon on synths and Cally on bass guitar? Jenna 'flying' on lead
>guitar? And Blake doing his best James Brown out front? (Gan can throw the
>cape over him and lead him off stage.) Which leaves Tarrant for another
>guitar and Dayna and Soolin for backup singers, with Dayna occasionally
>filling in on harp and percussion, and Soolin as accessory keyboards. How
>about it? <g>
Damn, my Bizarro zines are on the other side of the Atlantic...
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 14:42:50 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Star One (Was Re: Wow!)
Message-ID: <SA8zIgAajmE3EwHx@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <007501be8527$b1905ec0$4f18ac3e@default>, Neil Faulkner
<N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes
>Travis' betrayal of the entire human race - I covered this in Wit and Wisdom
>of the Dead (in Star Three). Basically, it more or less boiled down to
>Travis thinking that the entire human race had betrayed -him-. So he was on
>a revenge spree, until the Lurgen brainchip talked him out of it (whetting
>your appetite in case you've not read the story. As a Travis fan you might
>well like it).
It's a *good* story, and I like the way it shows Travis as more than a
cardboard character. Something I enjoyed about the series was that the
baddies weren't bad through and through, and weren't bad from their own
perspective. _Wit and Wisdom_ shows this wonderfully. I'd recommend it
to anyone, not just Travis admirers.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 23:51:27 +0100
From: Steve Rogerson <steve.rogerson@MCR1.poptel.org.uk>
To: Space City <space-city@world.std.com>, Lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>,
Xena list <xenanet-l@lists.dircon.co.uk>
Subject: [B7L] Con pix
Message-ID: <371278EF.D6E8CCAB@mcr1.poptel.org.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
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I'm going to use my new web site to put up pictures taken at
conventions. Adding conventions will be a slow process due to time
constraints, but I've got the first one up now, which was Terok Nor at
Heathrow in August 1997. So if anyone wants to see pix from that con,
the address is in my sig file. I'll let you know as I add more, such as
Deliverance, the Herc/Xena symposium last year and some of the BTG
nights at Pages. The pix exist, I've jus got to scan them in etc.
--
cheers
Steve Rogerson
http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson
"What is it with you and holes?"
Xena to Gabrielle, Paradise Found
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 15:59:26 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re:[B7L]Mission To Destiny
Message-ID: <19990412225926.98984.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>I had always assumed that it was the struggle with her that he >enjoyed rather than the act of causing pain.
>You know I think I would enjoy a struggle with Avon.....
>Julie Horner
<grin> I imagine the queue is fairly long by now...
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:06:00 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <19990412230600.47995.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Lorna wrote:
>I liked both FAWLTY and NEWHART, actually, but they weren't at >all alike.
I'm sure they weren't, Lorna, because (again, according to the writer) the television execs involved wanted both Basil and Sybil to be much nicer, and that is why John Cleese wanted nothing to do with it, but they went ahead anyway.
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 16:37:11 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <19990412233711.85398.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
>Actually, I'd call them equals, not superiors, at least in the case of his
>crewmates. Which might generate a sexual harrassment case in >corporate America, but the defendant would be the company that >allowed him to get away with that behaviour in the workplace without >disciplining him for it. This leads to thoughts of Dayna and Soolin >levying complaints at Avon for not keeping Vila in check --- oooh, >nooo!!! LOL! Please somebody write us a story about this!
Yes, do. <grin> I can see Avon's disbelief...not as pretty a picture as the results of being zapped by an electrified android, but interesting.
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 20:12:35 -0500
From: "Lorna B." <msdelta@magnolia.net>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: re [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <199904130106.UAA00727@pemberton.magnolia.net>
I wrote:
>>I liked both FAWLTY and NEWHART, actually, but they weren't at >all alike.
Joanne said:
>>I'm sure they weren't, Lorna, because (again, according to the writer) the
television execs involved wanted both Basil and Sybil to be much nicer, and
that is why John Cleese wanted nothing to do with it, but they went ahead
anyway. <<
At which point, I'd say that it is no longer based at all on FAWLTY
TOWERS--if it ever *was*. I've been thinking over the supporting characters
of NEWHART, and none of them seem to have any parallel to those on FAWLTY.
If you squint *really* hard, George *might* be kind of like Manuel, but
that's a tremendous long shot.
NEWHART relied a great deal on the premise of relatively normal outsiders
(Dick and Joanna, the innkeepers) trying to assimilate into an eccentric
small community. I don't recall seeing anything like that on FAWLTY TOWERS,
where everyone was completely mad. FAWLTY also used an enormous amount of
superb physical comedy, which I don't recall happening on NEWHART at all.
I'm sorry, I think the reporter kind of has his/her facts skewed. Either
that, or NEWHART was changed so much from FAWLTY that it's kind of ludicrous
to say the one derived from the other. Both were funny, inventive,
enjoyable programs, and that's really about all I care about when I watch
tv.
Lorna B.
"Cookies and porn? You're the best mom ever!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:23:02 PDT
From: "Joanne MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
Message-ID: <19990413022303.52394.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-type: text/plain
Lorna wrote:
>At which point, I'd say that it is no longer based at all on FAWLTY
>TOWERS--if it ever *was*.
Obviously, I've not made myself terribly clear. The makers were *inspired* by Fawlty Towers, but because they didn't think Basil would give them the ratings they wanted they made him into something else. So, of course, you are right, what they came up with isn't the *least* like Fawlty Towers, but that was their starting point, their inspiration.
I'd say that once you start on changing Basil, you have to change everyone else too, so that no character would resemble its source material - if you think about it, you can just hear the writers being told that someone is too unsympathetic in their original format, so they'll dump him and substitute someone else, and so this other character doesn't fit now, so there'll be a few changes there; et, eventually, voila! Nothing like the original, so much so that you wonder why they ever thought of trying to imitate or remake Fawlty Towers at all!
Because of this, comparing one with the other no longer works.
If the same group of people had made a copy of Blake's 7 shortly after its original run, you can imagine all the possible changes that would occur - no mention of the charges on which Blake was framed, Vila wouldn't be allowed to drink, Servalan's hair too short, you could go on - just because someone high up thought its target audience wouldn't watch it, and its advertisers wouldn't want to buy space on their airwaves if they clung tighter to the original.
<shrug> As the same writer who is causing Lorna such problems put it, the British didn't bother with Ally McBeal, they made This Life instead. The problem, in the end, is those television people from wherever, be it the US *or anywhere*, who think, domestically and globally, that television watchers can only digest souffles, without remembering that souffles have to be pretty good just to be edible.
<weary smile> Ah, lets blame it on the fact that television is a voracious monster needing constant feeding, and there are only so many good ideas to go around. For the rest, it's repeats. And more repeats. And more and more repeats (repeat ad nauseam).
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:20:02 EDT
From: NetSurfCK@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <3549656a.244403d2@aol.com>
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Sorry Lorna B... :) I accidentally sent this to you personally first.
<< In a message dated 4/12/99 10:43:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
<< I liked both FAWLTY and NEWHART, actually, but they weren't at all alike.
>>
I agree. I very much like both shows, but I have trouble drawing even a
similarity between them.
However, there were two US made British "ripoffs" that were extremely well
made AND did very well in the US. "Sanford and Son" and "All in the
Family"...
Wasn't "The Professionals" a takeoff on "Starsky and Hutch"?
Cynthia
--part1_3549656a.244403d2_boundary
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Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 22:13:41 EDT
Subject: Dark drama
To: msdelta@magnolia.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 4/12/99 10:43:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
<< I liked both FAWLTY and NEWHART, actually, but they weren't at all alike.
>>
I agree. I very much like both shows, but I have trouble drawing even a
similarity between them.
However, there were two US made British "ripoffs" that were extremely well
made AND did very well in the US. "Sanford and Son" and "All in the
Family"...
Wasn't "The Professionals" a takeoff on "Starsky and Hutch"?
Cynthia
--part1_3549656a.244403d2_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 08:10:27 +1000
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <19990413081027.A2979@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Apr 11, 1999 at 04:29:08PM -0700, Joanne MacQueen wrote:
> >> 'G'day, Bliyke!'
> >> 'G'day, Ivon!'
> >> 'Beaut day furra barbie!'
> >Isn't that, "Chuck anotha shrimp on th' barbie"? (-8
>
> No, Kathryn, no. <grin> Shame on you. It's king prawn, not
> shrimp.
Personally, I wouldn't want to abuse even King prawn by putting it on
the barbeque. Cold with salad. Or in a stir-fry. Yum.
> Please pardon Kathryn, it sounds like a severe case of
> Paulhoganitis. <continuing grin>
Naw, I was positing a case of Paulhoganitis for those putative BBC TV
makers.
> She'll be saying canteloup when she means rockmelon next!
How did you guess? "What's rockmelon, Mum?" Blame the
peregrinations of my family in my tender years. The other one I
confuse is "trash" and "rubbish" (though I am quite clear that
"garbage" is unequivocally American). We moved back to Australia when
I was six, but my elder siblings Influenced my vocabulary.
bi-continental Kathryn
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://home.connexus.net.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "standard/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 17:46:13 -0700
From: Julia Jones <Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] photo copyright
Message-ID: <2$$K3AAVPpE3Ewwj@jajones.demon.co.uk>
The issue of copyright in photos was raised on Lysator recently. I'd
just like to put one photographer's point of view.
Photos are copyright to the person who took them. They remain copyright
to the person who took them even when they are posted on the Internet -
contrary to popular opinion, placing material on the net is *not*
placing them in the public domain, and such material is not available
for unrestricted use by anyone who feels like it.
Why do I feel the need to point this out? Because a good number of my
photos are available on the web at Judith's website, with full
acknowledgement of who they belong to. I've seen evidence that they're
being copied to other websites, without attribution. Nobody concerned
has bothered to ask my permission first, or even told me that they were
doing so. This is not only breaking the law, it's rude.
The reason it's rude is that there's no excuse for not asking me. I
really can't conceive of how someone could find said photos on Judith's
website, but be unable to contact me either direct or through Judith to
ask for permission to use them. It's not as if I'm the shyest of
lurkers, and Judith's email address is on the website.
As it happens, I'm unlikely to object to non-commercial use, but I would
like to know where my babies end up, and I would like some
acknowledgement that they're mine. There is also the minor point that I
do not post in public any photos that in my opinion will obviously cause
distress to someone included in them, and if anyone ever does contact me
to ask that a photo be pulled from the website for this reason, I would
like to be able to pull *all* copies.
--
Julia Jones
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:25 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] The Syndeton Experiment
Message-ID: <2f1d3822.24442441@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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In a message dated 4/11/99 5:13:01 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
j_macqueen@hotmail.com writes:
> Nightclubbing, I feel, involves a few more of the social graces than Avon
> tends to display, unless, of course, anyone wants to speculate that a
> misspent youth has made him into that which we all know and love (or
"love",
> take your pick).
Haven't heard the play yet, so I can't comment on the context, but I don't
see Avon as being so nerdy or socially inept that he might not have spent his
share of time in bars when young. He was undoubtedly *very* attractive to
girls and might have found that letting *them* make advances towards *him*
was a lot easier than having to approach them himself. I remember hitting on
a few guys like that myself -- it was just uncomplicated and fun at the time.
Nina
(sometimes wondering how I ever survived my youth)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:20 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <baae2e35.2444243c@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/12/99 3:15:13 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
> I got the strange
> idea of turning all four seasons into the history of a rock group,
> constantly changing name and style to suit the times. Fortunately I never
> finished it, but just as tasters:
<snip>
ROFL!!! Jeez - from the Beatles to Metallica in 4 easy seasons?? You really
ought to finish this -- it's hysterical!
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:24 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se, space-city@world.std.com
Subject: [B7L] OT: Thanks for being yourselves
Message-ID: <53557159.24442440@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
I just wanted to take a moment to tell you all how glad I am that you're
here. Last Thursday, I had to put my 20 year old kitty, Tribble, to sleep,
and although none of you knew her or even about her, it helped me a lot to
know I could check in on the lists and find something to make me laugh. I've
only hung out here for a few months, but you already feel like old friends
and I really appreciate that.
thanks......Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:21 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <1211d5cc.2444243d@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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In a message dated 4/12/99 3:03:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
> I can't help thinking that being dragged in with Blake led Avon to discover
> that he did rather enjoy the adrenaline rush, and that was one of the
reasons
> he stayed on Liberator rather than disappear into safe but boring
> reclusivity.
That's an interesting idea! Before, he was probably getting an adrenaline
high from the embezzlement attempt and hacking into supposedly secure
systems, and then found out the rush of being in physically dangerous
situations was even better.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:38:23 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-ID: <c8e7d71d.2444243f@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 4/12/99 11:45:41 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
> I also happen to think he had the biggest and most varied porn collection of
> any of the rebel crews, but unfortunately that's only MO and not supported
> by canon. <sigh>
<chuckle> I don't think of Vila as sleazy, so much as being a hedonist. He
just wants to enjoy himself to the max. And yeah, a serious porn collection
would probably make him quite happy. Vila's the crewmember most likely to
want to live up to the expression "Don't worry -- be happy."
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:00:39 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Avon [B7L] the Sunbeam?
Message-ID: <19980312.080111.10062.3.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Sat, 10 Apr 1999 01:38:16 PDT "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
writes:
>Kathryn wrote:
><I find it much easier to concieve of Avon converting to an
>old-fashioned fire-and-brimstone grim version of Christianity than the
>
>"Yes Jesus loves me" sunbeam variety.>
>
>To which Joanne replied:
><I thought of the Spanish Inquisition at this point...>
>
>Yes, (as usual, immediately grasping the all-important issues here)
>wouldn't he look *wonderful* in the red robes???
>
Yes, but wouldn't he take all those vows seriously and REFUSE TO
DATE???? This could be a serious problem.
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:43:39 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama and comedy restructuring
Message-ID: <19980312.080111.10062.0.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 19:23:02 PDT "Joanne MacQueen"
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes:
>Lorna wrote:
>>At which point, I'd say that it is no longer based at all on FAWLTY
>>TOWERS--if it ever *was*.
>
>If the same group of people had made a copy of Blake's 7 shortly after
>its original run, you can imagine all the possible changes that would
>occur - no mention of the charges on which Blake was framed, Vila
>wouldn't be allowed to drink, Servalan's hair too short, you could go
>on - just because someone high up thought its target audience wouldn't
>watch it, and its advertisers wouldn't want to buy space on their
>airwaves if they clung tighter to the original.
And then they wonder why the writer who brought them the idea is no
longer able to do anything with it. Or why no one watches it.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:58:06 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <19980312.080111.10062.2.Rilliara@juno.com>
>On Sat, Apr 10, 1999 at 07:37:43PM +0100, U.M. Mccormack wrote:
>> Neil said:
>>
>> >I've just a read a piece on the BBC online news that British TV
>drama has
>> >been slated for being 'too dark, too slow, too gritty or too
>> >socio-political' to sell to a worldwide audience. The report by
>the
>> >Department of Culture points to sunny upbeat Australian shows like
>Home
>> >and Away as the kind of thing British TV companies ought to be
>making.
>>
>> >Rather kills off any last hopes of a fifth season of B7, dunnit?
>
Unless they all come back as Smurfs.
Oh, no, I can actually see this. The events in "Blake" were in some kind
of virtual reality or alternate universe.
Smurfette: Originally an evil, short-haired brunette, she became a good,
long haired blonde: Servalan and Soolin have been merged into one person.
The knight: Sterling character with unimportant sidekick noted for having
a lot of hair. Tarrant split into two people.
Papa Smurf & the other Smurfs: Blake is suffering from a major split
personality.
Evil Wizard: Avon is the only one who realizes what has happened and
spends each episode trying to catch the rest of the crew and put them out
of their misery (and hopefully end the virtual reality scenario. If not,
dead has still got to be better). Unfortunately, he's been mixed in with
Vila so he never quite pulls it off.
Asprin, please.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 07:50:18 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Songs and characters
Message-ID: <19980312.080111.10062.1.Rilliara@juno.com>
>TVFan87656@aol.com wrote:
>
>> When listening to a song on the radio\CD player\cassette tape, do
>you ever
>> think to yourself, "this would be perfect for a B7 character?"
>
Most of the songs from chess, especially "Nobody's on Nobody's Side." If
I remember right, there's a line that goes "Never take a stranger's
advice/ Never let a friend fool you twice." Definitly an Avon song.
Ellynne
___________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:01:09 -0700
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-ID: <19980312.080111.10062.4.Rilliara@juno.com>
On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:25:49 -0700 Julia Jones
<Julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk> writes:
>In message <199904121827.UAA26448@samantha.lysator.liu.se>, K. Michael
>Wilcox <kmwilcox@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> writes
>>Who once had to sit back and listen to a guy lecture that any show
>set in
>>space _had_ to be a rip-off of "Star Trek".
>>
>Presumably this includes Dr Who (first broadcast 1963).
>
>Back to Dr Who - who else gets annoyed with "Roddenbury was God"
>Trekkers wittering on about what a wonderful invention the borg are?
>Anyone would think that the concept of a cyborg race intent on ruling
>the universe was a novel idea.
-
Only because Star Trek turned the Cybermen into a four letter word.
On the other hand, when the new Star Wars comes out and the good guys are
fighting the evil Federation, what do you bet someone says Lucas stole
the idea?
Ellynne
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:26:42 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Sleazy Vila
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413002642.007df220@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:38 AM 4/13/99 EDT, Nina wrote:
>In a message dated 4/12/99 11:45:41 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
>msdelta@magnolia.net writes:
>
>> I also happen to think he had the biggest and most varied porn
collection of
>> any of the rebel crews, but unfortunately that's only MO and not supported
>> by canon. <sigh>
>
><chuckle> I don't think of Vila as sleazy, so much as being a hedonist. He
>just wants to enjoy himself to the max. And yeah, a serious porn collection
>would probably make him quite happy.
However I'm afraid the honours for both largest and most varied would have
to go to Jenna. What'd you *think* she was caught smuggling -- guns?
--Penny "But You Can Call Me 'Hef'" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:36:10 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <egomoo@mail.geocities.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Smurfs (was Re: Dark drama)
Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990413003610.007c6100@mail.geocities.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 07:58 AM 3/12/98 -0700, Ellynne G. wrote:
>Unless they all come back as Smurfs.
Write this up in standard narrative format, Ellynne, and I think we'll
*definitely* have ourselves a new winner in the Worst Openings competition.
Curling irons and sunbeams notwithstanding.
--Penny "Lusty Smurf" Dreadful
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 00:10:01 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Mission to Destiny
Message-ID: <3712EDC8.81E5D188@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pherber@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 4/12/99 3:03:59 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
> N.Faulkner@tesco.net writes:
>
> > I can't help thinking that being dragged in with Blake led Avon to discover
> > that he did rather enjoy the adrenaline rush, and that was one of the
> reasons
> > he stayed on Liberator rather than disappear into safe but boring
> > reclusivity.
>
> That's an interesting idea! Before, he was probably getting an adrenaline
> high from the embezzlement attempt and hacking into supposedly secure
> systems, and then found out the rush of being in physically dangerous
> situations was even better.
I like this idea; but I always rather thought that, as a 'civilized man', Avon
found it ungentlemanly to hit a woman, and was a bit peeved with himself for
enjoying it (which he understandably did, as she so much deserved it).
Grins,
Mistral
--
"Don't overreact."--Avon
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 03:07:34 -0400
From: "Anna Sawitzky" <olddays@idirect.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: OT: Re: [B7L] Dark drama
Message-Id: <199904130707.DAA98853@orion.idirect.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Kathryn wrote, in response to Neil's post:
>
> Not at all. I never watch soap trash. Even apparently superior soap
> trash like Neighbours. I have a suspicion that Neighbours and the
> like are *more* popular in the UK than they are here. Probably
> because it is a change from the usual fare of dark, slow, gritty and
> socio-political. Now, if you were denigrating *good* Aussie shows
> like... like... like Police Rescue, then it would be another matter.
> My video collection is mostly US and UK stuff. For the TV series, the
> exceptions are:
Speaking of dark, and now I'll throw in twisted, did anyone besides
me watched the extremely short-lived U.S. show "Profit" which
starred Adrian Pasdar? That was a brilliant program! It's a shame
that FOX only decided to run about half of the episodes made and
then yanked it! :~(
> Aussie children's SF (Finder's Keepers, Girl From Tomorrow, Ocean
> Girl, Spellbinder)
> Aussie action drama (Halifax f.p., Police Rescue, Murder Call, Spyforce)
> (of which only Halifax and Police Rescue are really good, IMHO)
> New Zealand children's SF series (Night of the Red Hunter)
> Japanese anime (Bubblegum Crisis, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Robotech)
> Canadian+ SF (Forever Knight, Highlander, LEXX, Matrix)
I'm sorry, I have to correct you about the above reference to
Canadian. Forever Knight was Canadian, and LEXX is Canadian,
but both Highlander and Matrix, although filmed in Canada were
meant for the U.S. I *still* haven't seen a single 1st season
Highlander episode, although the local station that ran 2nd and 3rd
season episodes... over and over and over and over and over...
finally ran the 4th season. Another local station ran the 5th and
6th seasons. Matrix was filmed in Toronto, Ontario, but was
intended to air first on USA Network (I know, they got it before we
did) (I kept an article that mentioned Geraint Wyn Davies (from
Forever Knight) was filming an episode of Matrix, and Matrix was
cancelled by USA Network before it aired here, in October or
November of that year). Highlander was filmed in Vancouver, B.C.,
and Paris, but also aired first in the States, on WGN.
> I count myself fortunate in at least this: that even if we don't
> produce any non-Children's SF, we get to see the best from both the US
> and the UK. Most of the time. They never showed Sapphire & Steel
> over here (boo hiss) I had to find out about that from fannish word of
> mouth. Highlander had a truncated run, only to turn up later on
> cable, and VR.5 was shown at midnight.
>
> The best Aussie drama gets produced by the ABC (the Aussie equivalent
> of the BBC) - naturally.
>
> Down with pandering to the lowest common denominator!
> Down with pandering to the US market!
> Up with quality drama! Up with dark and gritty!
>
> (+) Canadian sometimes plus other country like France or Germany.
Forever Knight was Canada, Germany, and U.S. I believe
Highlander was U.S. and France. Forever Knight is also one of the
few made in Canada, and even says it's in Canada. Besides being
a great show, I loved it that not only was it filmed in Toronto, they
even said it was Toronto! :)
> Mind you, Spellbinder was an Australian plus
> some-european-country-I've-forgotten production. Means you get nifty
> accents for half your cast.
Something to look out for, since I've never seen it.
ObB7 mention: I would have loved to see the crew of Liberator or
Scorpio deal with an intelligent race that looked like... COWS
<ducks and hides from Tramila!> :)
Anna
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V99 Issue #130
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