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blakes7-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 25
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] RE: Doesn't like 'Harvest of Kairos'?
Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
[B7L] Gareth and Jackie
Re: [B7L] Clinton
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
[B7L] Zine list: multimedia erotica
[B7L] Still more zine list additions
Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator engine
[B7L] Re: cancel subscription
[B7L] Clinton and Avon
Re: [B7L] Beards and Heartbeat
[B7L]
Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
Re: [B7L] Clinton and Avon
[B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week.
[B7L] need Beta Reader
RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:31:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] RE: Doesn't like 'Harvest of Kairos'?
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0125093129-bc8Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sat 24 Jan, Pat Patera wrote:
> G. Robbins wrote:
> >
> > OH DUH! Forgot about that stupid fake looking monster on Kairos..
>
> yes, that did rather fling the series into a new orbit of silliness -
> surely that critter wandered in from the set of Hitchhikers Guide to the
> Galaxy? I always wonder how many times the crew had to reshoot that
> scene facing the giant bug - I always envision them rolling on the
> grass, overcome by hysterics. Is that on the bloopers film?
> Pat P
'Brian the spider' as he was apparently known.
You know, he couldn't have been that bad - my kids were scared of him when
they first watched that epiosde!
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:27:55 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] New Here with a question.
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0125092755-d07Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sun 25 Jan, Kathryn Andersen wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 24, 1998 at 07:07:28PM -0500, DCsquared wrote: But there's a
> very good Blake's 7 club in Texas, in the Dallas area, called O*R*A*C. I
> used to be an overseas member, because they actually had a decent
> newsletter. They seem to meet regularly, in members homes or at particular
> public places.
>
> Tarriel Cell
> newsletter of O*R*A*C - bimonthly
> P.O. Box 566123
> Dallas TX 75356-6123
> USA
>
> That was the last address I had for them. I don't know who their current
> email contact is, or who is the current editor of the newsletter.
>
They are now a general SF club as opposed to B7 in particular. They have a
web page, and I think it's linked from mine. Try either the links page or
the fan club page. When I last checked, Joe Isham ran it, but that was about
a year ago.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:38:06 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Gareth and Jackie
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0125223806-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Gareth Thomas and Jacqueline Pearce will be signing items at Hollywood
Superstore, 16-18 St Giles High St, London, WC2H 8LN. It's near Tottenham
Court Rd, tube station.
The date will be 21 Feb and the time 1pm until 4pm.
The phone number for information is 0171 8363736.
I'm thinking of going. If anyone else is, maybe we could meet up at Page's
Bar afterwards?
(Information courtesy of Sheelagh Wells)
Sheelagh Wells is bringing out a new set of three bookmarks. This set is the
Scorpio men - Avon, Vila and Tarrant. The set costs 3.75 pounds in the UK,
or $8 to the USA. I'll be adding details to the merchandise section of the
web page shortly.
Sheelagh also has a new audio tape that will be premiering soon. This one
will be called 'Elements' and have Jacqueline Pearce taling to Paul Darrow.
The other side will have more of David Maloney, Gareth Thomas, etc. I'll
give more details when I know them, but if this is as good as the previous
tapes, then it will be well worth getting.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:51:03 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Clinton
Message-ID: <5a564f85.34cbc1d9@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-01-25 08:24:15 EST, Julie wrote:
<< The inclusion of Peter "Prince of Darkness"
Mandelson in the comparison was probaly a bit closer to the mark though. >>
Now that you mention it, who is that?
Curiously,
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:16:05 EST
From: E van Looy <EvanLooy@aol.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <848ce08d.34cbc7b7@aol.com>
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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In a message dated 98-01-25 15:43:37 EST, Pat wrote:
<< > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean.
> AVON: I don't know. Could you?
> JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out.
This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the
moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole
storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect
adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black). >>
Ah, yes, one of my favorite zines--I never made the connection until now.
Thanks for that bit of background, that was another connection I never made. I
used to play a lot of checkers with my grandfather when I was young, but our
stones were white and black. Or should the squares have been black and red?
Our board was wooden with the black squares painted on and the others left
simply wood-coloured.
I apparently had a rather deprived childhood, although we were very happy
living in simple harmony in our hole under the dike and hunting muskus rats
for food and clothing....
Elise
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:22:20 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980125181739.22123C-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Fran Myers wrote:
>>The Web: Avon saving Blake from the bomb, Blake giving in when Avon
>>gets hit with the cattle prod, the nice camaraderie under the elms.
>But Blake gives in when ANY of his friends or other innocents are
>threatened. All the time. Even on the London.
Check out "Horizon."
>>Redemption: After the sparring, Avon covers Blake's head when they fall
>>to the deck.
>So Vila loves Tarrant?
I guess someone has to. 8-)
>He covered Tarrant's head when they hit the
>ground in "Rescue"...
Tarrant was barely unconscious and in danger from falling debris
because there was an explosion. Avon's covering Blake was more
gratuitous.
>>Pressure Point: Avon holding Blake as Blake falls to his knees in
>>shock and despair.
>I think he'd do the same for any crew member who was upset. He needed
>them.
I don't think so, Fran. Blake is always a special case with Avon.
>>Countdown: Blake threatens Grant if anything happens to Avon
>Because he NEEDS Avon's expertise and doesn't want him killed. I
>believe he would have done the same thing if, say, Vila had been in that
>situation.
There's also the blatant eavesdropping earlier ( that I just love).
Blake's very interested in what's going on.
>>Hostage: Blake holding Avon when Avon is wounded
>They are all frequently holding each other when wounded or unconscious.
What constitutes frequently and could you give a dozen examples
of Avon holding the others when they're in pain or unconscious in ways
that don't involve moving them from one spot to another?
>>Voice from the Past: Avon holding Blake as Blake screams, Avon very
>>concerned about Blake in general.
>Avon needs Blake - he prefers the role of critic to the role of
>leader. He really enjoys saying "I told you so".
And this requires him to be all over Blake like green on an M&M?
>>Star One: After all the yelling, Avon goes anyway (them in a
>>nutshell 8-) solicitous when Blake's wounded, agrees to carry on the
>>battle when Blake can't. The "I've always trusted you" scene.
>Blake always knew which button to push - that was what made him such a
>good leader. He always said exactly the right thing to keep crew
>members working together. You can trust someone without loving them.
>Or wanting to fuck them! (I wish I could say "for example, Australia's
>prime minister". Unfortunately nobody wants to trust OR fuck him.)
You certainly can love, trust, honor, and cherish someone without
wanting to fuck him/her. I was/am just poointing out that these scenes
are highly charged and that makes them grist for the slash mill.
>>Aftermath: Avon's main concern is Blake (he asks Orac about him more
>>than the others).
>He doesn't want the burden of leadership. He know he is no good at
>it. Why have a dog and bark too?
Avon is more concerned about Blake than the others; they have a
special relationship, more important to Avon than his relationships with
the others, regardless of how it's interpreted.
>>Terminal: The look on Avon's face when Servalan says Blake is dead,
>>everything he does to get there.
>He doesn't want to lead. He is sick of Tarrant! I interpret the look
>on his face as self-anger because he fell for the trap.
That, too, certainly, but the killer is that Blake's dead. After the
game is lost, Avon is still holding on to the hope that Blake's alive.
That's what he asks about, and that was lure that hooked him.
>>Blake: Avon once again risks everything he has to get to Blake. No
>>one else's (apparent) betrayal would cut as deep.
>Except Anna's. Avon trusted only twice, and both times believed he
>had been let down.
Avon didn't take the same kind of repeated risks for Anna that
he did for Blake; what he did in RoD was for himself, since he thought
she was dead. He didn't kill her when he found out the truth, he killed
her when she pulled a gun on him.
>So, as Sue points out, there is more than one way to view these scenes.
>I left out one example, as it always made me giggle to see them
>"embracing". And I still can't see homosexual overtones between them.
>But then I see a sexual relationship between Blake and Jenna, which some
>fans don't see.
Many interpretations are possible, but some are more fun than
others. 8-) None rule out another--I think to be a fan of anything you
have to be able to hold several, sometimes conflicting, interpretation in
your head at once. Even more than the text immediately suggests. As for
Blake and Jenna, well, of course! 8-) The hug in "Cygnus Alpha,"
handholding in "Time Squad," the many little tete-a-tetes in the early
episodes, Avon's insinuation in "Weapon," Jenna being chosen as the friend
in "Duel," "Hostage," etc.
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Jackie wrote:
>Many thanks for the above info. I remember those scenes, but never
>thought about them in a slash way. I shall have to watch them again
>bearing slash in mind.
For a really good laugh, try reading a slash zine while watching
any episode. 8-) I love slash and it still makes me cackle.
>>But the Royal Rumble free for all is about to start. 8-)
>
>We didn`t get the free for all (again :-( ). Did HBK survive THE GRAB
>intact, do you think??
Oh, yeah, balls of steel (to go with the buns of steel) on that
boy. 8-)
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Julia Jones wrote:
>that I didn't see any sexual connotation in the very strong emotional
>relationship between Blake and Avon, until the aforementioned frame-by-
>frame description of what I should be looking at. I gave in at Duel.
LOL! 8-) If that's not a testimonial, I don't know what is.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:30:58 -0000
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Message-ID: <01BD29F1.D2B86940@host5-99-54-237.btinternet.com>
Sue wrote:
>some of the
>performances, the cliche of the religious cult leader
But, but, but... that was Brian Blessed. He was being Brian Blessed. It's
only a cliche because he's being doing it so long. It's like saying Clint
Eastwood was just acting out a cliche in "Unforgiven". Well, yes. But it
was his cliche. Blessed was playing the "Mad Diaphragm-Projecting Fanatic
Religious Leader (C) 19?? Brian Blessed".
The other stuff you said was true, though. I think they had got from
well-thought-out pilot that had to be wonderful to sell it people and into
oh-my-god-what-do-i-do-with-a-tv-crew-and-five-days-to-write-a-script
territory. :-)
>I'm curious about
>what sort of political negotiations and compromises led to this penal
>system where people are shipped off without tools or supplies, essentially
>left to die. Why not just kill them off?
Well, the Nazis used this sort of bizarre beaurocratic system on the Jews.
They shipped them huge distances across the country, feeding them and
keeping them (just about) alive, went through loads of very complicated
paperchasing rituals, and then at the end just killed them. But even then
they went to the trouble of gas chambers, rigged ambulances, and so on.
Bullets are dirt cheap, especially when there's a war on.
It's amazing the amount of time, effort and money that people will waste to
convince themselves that what they are doing is not murder or genocide,
it's just the way things are. The drawn-out system of death rows in America
seems mad. If you're that certain that this person is so evil that they
have to be put to death, just put a pistol to their heads and pull the
trigger. And do it yourself, you pansy. Either that, or bin the death
penalty completely as unworkable.
Tom Forsyth.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:58:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: randym7%bestweb.net%inet#@genie.geis.com,
space-city%world.std.com%inet#@genie.geis.com
Subject: [B7L] Zine list: multimedia erotica
Message-Id: <199801260131.BAA13288@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
B7 ZINE LIST E
MULTIMEDIA SLASH, ADULT, AND MIXED FICTION ZINES WITH B7 CONTENT
ADULT SITUATIONS #1 (US)
ADULT SITUATIONS #2 (US)
ADULT SITUATIONS #3 (US)
ADULT SITUATIONS #5 (US)
AWAKENINGS [not sure about this one]
BED AND BORED (US)
BENE DICTUM HALF'N'HALF (slash; US, 1995.2)
BEYOND ANTARES R-RATED #5 (adult; AU)
THE BLACK BOX (novel; slash, multiple crossovers; UK)
BUNTING FLY #2 (slash; US, 1993?)
COHORTS #1 (slash; AU, 1995)
COHORTS #2 (slash; AU, 1995)
COMPOUNDED INTEREST #3 (slash; US, 1995)
COMPOUNDED INTEREST #4 (slash; US, 1995)
CONCUPISCENCE #1 (slash; US)
CONCUPISCENCE #2 (slash; US, 1992.5)
CONCUPISCENCE #4 (slash; US, 1995.5)
DARK FANTASIES #1 (slash; US, 1993)
DARK FANTASIES #2 (slash; US, 1994.8)
DARK FANTASIES #3 (slash; US, 1995.8)
DARK FANTASIES #4 (slash; US, 1996.7)
DARK FANTASIES #5 (slash; US, 1997.3)
DIVERSE DOINGS (US, 1997.11)
DYAD #15 (slash; US, 1994.4)
DYAD #17 (slash; US, 1995)
FRIENDS WILL BE FRIENDS #3 (slash; UK)
FRISKY THE 13TH (slash; US, 1992.10)
FRUIT COCKTAIL #1 (slash; US, 1991.5)
FRUIT COCKTAIL #2 (slash; no B7 in #3; US)
FULL CIRCLE #2 (slash; AU)
HEROES #1 (slash; no B7 in #2; US)
HOMOSAPIEN (slash; AU, 1991.7)
HOMOSAPIEN TOO (slash; AU, 1992.5)
HOMOSAPIEN TROIS (slash; B7 poetry; AU, 1993.12)
I DON'T DRINK...WINE (mm vampire slash, and some gen; US, 1989.4)
IF THEIR MOTHERS ONLY KNEW #1 (slash; US)
IF THEIR MOTHERS ONLY KNEW #2 (slash; US, 1995)
IT'S GREEK TO ME (slash; US, 1992)
JUST MY TYPE (mm vampire slash; US)
THE LAUGHING MUTOID #5 (humorous adult; #s 1-4 were all-B7; US,
1990)
THE LAUGHING MUTOID #6 (humorous adult; US, Summer 1990)
THE LAUGHING MUTOID #7 (humorous adult; US, Spring 1991)
LIAISONS #1 (slash; US, 1991.5)
LIAISONS #2 (slash; US, 1993.2)
MEDIA RARE (adult; B7 poetry; US, 1993)
MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 1 (slash; UK, 1994)
MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 2 (slash; UK)
MERLYN'S TALES, VOLUME 3 (slash; UK)
MORE NAUGHTY BITS (humorous adult, sequel to THE NAUGHTY BITS; US,
1990)
THE NAUGHTY BITS (humorous adult; US, 1989.2)
NO HOLDS BARRED #1 (slash; US, 1992.5)
NO HOLDS BARRED #3 (slash; US, 1993.5)
NO HOLDS BARRED #9 (slash; US)
NO HOLDS BARRED #12 (slash; US, 1996.5)
ON THE EDGE #1 (slash and adult; US, 1993)
ON THE EDGE #2 (slash and adult; B7 poetry; US, 1993)
PAEAN TO PRIAPUS I (slash; US, 1990.6)
PAEAN TO PRIAPUS II (slash; US, 1990.10)
PAEAN TO PRIAPUS III (slash; US, 1991.10)
PAEAN TO PRIAPUS IV (slash; US, 1992.8)
PAEAN TO PRIAPUS V (slash; US, 1993.9)
PLAIN BROWN WRAPPER #1 (US)
PLAYFELLOWS #3 (slash; US)
PLAYFELLOWS #4 (slash; US)
PLAYFELLOWS #5 (slash; US)
PLAYFELLOWS #6 (slash; US)
PLAYFELLOWS #7 (slash; US)
PLAYFELLOWS #8 (slash; US)
RED ROSE #1 (slash; UK?)
RISK (slash, and one gen play; US, 1997)
SAPPHO (all f/f; B7 poetry; US, 1993.5)
SATYRNALIA (slash; US)
STARGATE #1 (adult?; UK, early 1980s)
STARWYCK (novel by Six Ladies of Quality; slash, multiple crossovers; US)
TONGUE IN CHEEK (slash; US, 1984)
TOUCHED #1/2 (slash; UK, 1984)
TOUCHED #3 (slash; UK, 1984)
TOUCHED #4 (slash; UK, 1985)
TOUCHED #5 (slash; UK, 1985)
TOUCHED #6 (slash; UK, 1985)
TOUCHED #7 (slash; UK, 1986.3)
TOUCHED #8 (slash; UK, 1986.7)
TOUCHED #9 (slash; UK, 1986.11-12)
TOUCHED #10 (slash; UK, 1987.7)
TOUCHED #11 (slash; UK, 1987.11)
UNCHARTED WATERS #7 (slash; UK, 1993.3)
UNCHARTED WATERS #8 (slash; UK)
UNCHARTED WATERS #9 (slash; UK)
UNCHARTED WATERS #12 (slash; UK)
UNCHARTED WATERS #13 (slash; UK)
THE UNIQUE TOUCH #1 (slash; UK, 1985)
THE UNIQUE TOUCH #2 (slash; UK, 1988.2)
XXX FILES: THE FRISKY PROJECT (slash; US, 1994.10)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 00:59:00 GMT
From: s.thompson8@genie.geis.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: randym7%bestweb.net%inet#@genie.geis.com,
space-city%world.std.com%inet#@genie.geis.com
Subject: [B7L] Still more zine list additions
Message-Id: <199801260130.BAA13283@rock103.genie.net>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
List A, all-B7 gen
Add zine:
BADLANDS BLAKES 7 SPECIAL (stories reprinted from mm zine; CN)
Add or correct date of publication:
BEST OF SPACEFALL #1 (UK, 1986)
BEST OF SPACEFALL #2 (UK, 1991)
PORT IN A STORM (novella by Lisa York, reprinted from SPACEFALL #3
and later reprinted in BEST OF SPACEFALL #2; UK, 1983)
SHADOW TWO (UK, 1986.4)
STRANGERS AMONG US (UK, 1980 or before)
[I must have gotten the 1987 date from a reprint edition.]
THE WEB #2 (UK, 1993)
List B, mm genzines with B7 content
Add zine:
MEDTREK 1991 FANZINE (AU, 1991)
[That's in addition to the 1984 one. Were there more?]
MULTIVERSE #28 (AU, 1996.1)
MULTIVERSE #29 (AU, 1996.11)
REFRACTIONS #3 (AU, 1997)
[Thanks, Kathryn-- I think I must have confused this issue with the
all-B5 one. What are the dates of publication for #s 1 and 2?]
SHERWOOD TUNNELS #7
[Yes, it does have some B7 material in it.]
List D, all-B7 adult, slash, and mixed
FORBIDDEN STAR #2 (UK, 1997.12)
[And thank you, Julia-- I don't know how I missed that! Maybe it's
because I wasn't sure whether the date was 1997.12 or 1998.1 and was waiting
for the copy I just ordered to arrive, so I could check it before I listed
it, and then forgot to put it in before I sent this out. Is THE LONG WAY
BACK out yet? It's listed as "forthcoming."]
Sarah Thompson
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:34:40 +1100
From: Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Liberator engine
Message-ID: <19980126073440.63626@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 09:32:48AM -0000, Sam wrote:
> >>Paul asked:
> >>Was the green thing at the back part of the engines?
>
> If I remember right (and it has been some time since I last saw Blakes 7),
> wasn't there a difference between the Liberator and Federation technologies?
>
> The Liberator's drive system actually prpoelled the ship at emormous speeds,
> while Federation ships *warped* space to achieve such speeds.
>
> That would make the green thing the part of the engine that *thrust* the
> Liberator forward.
You're getting mixed up between Liberator and Scorpio. The Scorpio
"stardrive" was able to travel at "time distort" speeds in real time.
The fact that the Blake's 7 crew was so astonished about this, implies
heavily that the Liberator's drive still used the same "time distort"
principles as the Federation drive, it was just a lot faster - more
efficient?
However, that doesn't preclude the green thing being part of the engine.
My theory on the time-distort drive is that there were two parts to it -
the time-distort part and the thrusting part. The time-distort enabled
them to go a lot faster by distorting time for the same amount of space
covered, but they still had to have a "thrust" part in order to actually
go anywhere.
Thus my idea, to be saved up for some future story, that you could get an
ultra-fast drive by combining stardrive and time-distort technology.
But then, you have to wonder why Dr. Plaxton didn't do that already.
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Masked man: There's something I ought to tell you...
Inigo: What?
Masked man: I'm not left-handed either! (The Princess Bride)
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:38:29 EST
From: thescifiguy@juno.com (Gordon R Payton)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: cancel subscription
Message-ID: <19980125.223654.4822.1.thescifiguy@juno.com>
Please cancel my membership in this e-mail club. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:25:08 -0800
From: "Adam L. Fuller" <adfuller@ix.netcom.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Clinton and Avon
Message-Id: <3.0.32.19980125202502.006a5514@POPD.ix.netcom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Let me expand a little on what I said before about the absurdity of Paul
Darrow's comparison of Avon to Bill Clinton. This may sound strange to many
of you, but I would say that neither one of them are motivated by power.
Avon is motivated by knowledge. The power he seeks is only for knowledge it
may potentially bring him. He didn't want the Liberator for idealistic
goals that Blake had, he wanted it to go out and obtain knowledge for its
own sake. ORAC was another tool that he and Blake used for different
reasons. Avon was a very rational man, motivated by the need to explore and
understand and make a point.
Bill Clinton, on the other hand, is not motivated by power either. He is
motivated by the job and the competition in getting the job. The job is not
power for him. A man as wishy-washy as he is can't be interested in power.
The power to do what? Whatever is the hot topic of the day so that he can
be re-elected or leave a legacy? No, he's not a man with core principles or
a desire to lead and control. He is a politician, not a leader. Yes, he's
an effective president, but he's not a very powerful one. Power would
require embracing a view that people in his own party would adopt and be
able to lead his party to accomplishing that agenda. Half the time, his own
people are against him. A man who is motivated by power would never
tolerate that. He is also in love with the competition. Oh, how he loved
beating up on George Bush and Bob Dole! Not because he disagreed with them
and enjoyed the rational discourse, that is something Avon would have taken
a lot of joy in, but because it makes him look good and makes him feel good
to score extra points in this game called politics.
Sorry, Mr. Darrow, I don't see the resemblance between Avon and Clinton.
And I don't see either one as being motivated by power.
-Adam L. Fuller
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:52:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
To: Lysator List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Beards and Heartbeat
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.09-0125225241-0b0Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
On Sun 25 Jan, Julia Jones wrote:
> Well, having just watched the Heartbeat episode that Gareth's in, I'm
> going to distress both Iain and Judith - even Gareth can't manage to
> look cut in "Yorkshire farmer stubble".
I think you meant 'cute' <grin>.
I didn't expect him to look cute - he's an actor. The part didn't call for
cute (besides, it was filmed before he grew the beard to a decent length).
Humour - yes. Rather nice to see him playing a character that called for
some subtle commedy.
I hope they do use the character again, although it did take my brain a while
to adjust to the Yorkshire accent.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7
Redemption 99 - The Blakes 7/Babylon 5 convention
26-28 February 1999, Ashford International Hotel, Kent
http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:33:46 +0100 (MET)
From: a882ws <a882ws@flash.net>
To: <blackwell@staronline.com>
Subject: [B7L]
Message-Id: <19943672.886214@relay.comanche.denmark.eu> Tuesday, January 27th, 1998
Authenticated sender is <a882ws@flash.net>
Subject: Monday
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:20:29 +0000
From: Julia Jones <julia.jones@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
Message-ID: <6greZCANb9y0EwMK@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <Pine.OSF.3.95.980125181739.22123C-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>,
NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu> writes
>On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 Fran Myers wrote:
<snip>
>
>
>>>Pressure Point: Avon holding Blake as Blake falls to his knees in
>>>shock and despair.
>>I think he'd do the same for any crew member who was upset. He needed
>>them.
>
> I don't think so, Fran. Blake is always a special case with Avon.
>
It's the contrast between what Avon says and his tone of voice, and the
way he's holding Blake, that I really love. It's just so obvious to me
that he really cares about the man, even as he's explaining that it's
been a waste of time. And I thought that before I was introduced to the
concept of slash.
>
>>>Hostage: Blake holding Avon when Avon is wounded
>>They are all frequently holding each other when wounded or unconscious.
>
> What constitutes frequently and could you give a dozen examples
>of Avon holding the others when they're in pain or unconscious in ways
>that don't involve moving them from one spot to another?
Well, I probably could if I went through my notes for the "touching"
lists I've been doing on Space City (and I apologise to the citizens for
falling behind on that recently). I suspect that doing so would show
that Avon was far more intense about Blake than the others, even though
he's quite a toucher in general if you watch him rather than listen to
him. Best one I can remember at the moment is the one below:
>
>>>Voice from the Past: Avon holding Blake as Blake screams, Avon very
>>>concerned about Blake in general.
>>Avon needs Blake - he prefers the role of critic to the role of
>>leader. He really enjoys saying "I told you so".
>
> And this requires him to be all over Blake like green on an M&M?
He's not only all over Blake while Blake's screaming, there's the scene
a bit later when Blake is unconscious and trussed up in the high backed
chair, with the others standing around it. Avon is standing behind the
chair, leaning on it. He isn't actually touching Blake, because of the
chair design, but the impression of "protective hovering" is very
strong.
>
>
>>>Aftermath: Avon's main concern is Blake (he asks Orac about him more
>>>than the others).
>>He doesn't want the burden of leadership. He know he is no good at
>>it. Why have a dog and bark too?
>
> Avon is more concerned about Blake than the others; they have a
>special relationship, more important to Avon than his relationships with
>the others, regardless of how it's interpreted.
Avon clearly loves Blake, whether or not you think he has any sexual
interest in him. As in:
>
>>>Terminal: The look on Avon's face when Servalan says Blake is dead,
>>>everything he does to get there.
And then there's "Blake"....
From my earlier post:
>
>>that I didn't see any sexual connotation in the very strong emotional
>>relationship between Blake and Avon, until the aforementioned frame-by-
>>frame description of what I should be looking at. I gave in at Duel.
>
> LOL! 8-) If that's not a testimonial, I don't know what is.
>
The fact that I'm now writing the stuff, after spending my first 18
years as a fan totally unaware of the possibility? Hi Judith, thank you
for the frame-by-frame...
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:29:21 -0600
From: Reuben <reuben@reuben.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Clinton and Avon
Message-ID: <34CC495F.547E@reuben.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Adam L. Fuller wrote:
> Bill Clinton, on the other hand, is not motivated by power either. He is
> motivated by the job and the competition in getting the job. The job is not
> power for him. A man as wishy-washy as he is can't be interested in power.
> The power to do what? Whatever is the hot topic of the day so that he can
> be re-elected or leave a legacy? No, he's not a man with core principles or
> a desire to lead and control. He is a politician, not a leader. Yes, he's
> an effective president, but he's not a very powerful one. Power would
> require embracing a view that people in his own party would adopt and be
> able to lead his party to accomplishing that agenda. Half the time, his own
> people are against him. A man who is motivated by power would never
> tolerate that. He is also in love with the competition. Oh, how he loved
> beating up on George Bush and Bob Dole! Not because he disagreed with them
> and enjoyed the rational discourse, that is something Avon would have taken
> a lot of joy in, but because it makes him look good and makes him feel good
> to score extra points in this game called politics.
Boy isn't it fun to kick a man when he's down. I really like the part
about not disagreeing with George Bush and Bob Dole. They agree on a
few issues like budget reform, and now it just politics to score
points. If there has EVER been a President that enjoyed rational
discourse it is Bill Clinton. The town meeting style discussions with
the public, and with opponents, the weekly radio talks (ever listen to
them, very well thought out not just used for scoring points on an
opponent). The man is all about new ideas. No President since FDR has
introduced more reform.
Anyway I don't like to go on like this on a Blake's 7 mailing list,
there are better places for discussing politics. I don't mind tangents,
in fact I really enjoy them. But, the political one is to prone just to
turn into massive argument (As is the religous one: I learned my lesson
on that one after starting the notorious Who and Religion thread on
rec.arts.drwho)
Appologies for any toes stepped on.
Reuben
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 04:20:06 -0500 (EST)
From: adering@ziplink.net (Alex Dering)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L]: random thoughts and such from the week.
Message-Id: <v01000000b0f1bb5c9c4b@[208.196.104.52]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi everyone.
Well, I kept piling up the messages and finally got the opportunity to read
through them all.
Just to address a few topics that stuck in my mind:
1. Oral sex and men with beards tickling during...
Well, I think, just as a general practice, that it isn't very nice to
tickle someone while you are performing oral sex. Keep your fingers
somewhere else. (Oh, wait, you meant the _beard_) Carry on...
2. The issue of women having to be so much better than men to succeed...
No arguments from me on that one. Similarly, I note there are studies
(which I have not read) which demonstrate that fat people get lower grades
in school than their slim counterparts (which also backs up the ages-old
studies which showed that the student's name will affect the grade he or
she gets). However, although there are women who are tremendously talented
and unrecognized, I would also submit that there are men who are talented
and unrecognized (such as yours truly) and that there are also women (and
men) who are hopelessly inept, petty, stupid, etc. who certainly get away
with a hell of a lot.
3. The whole issue of all planets looking like quarries...
In one of the new Doctor Who novels the Sylvester McCoy Doctor points out
that the earth is precious and then says something on the idea of "most of
the planets in the universe look like quarries."
4. Liberator models...
I remember seeing in a catalog, many years ago, an ad for a Liberator model
(at $50 American). At the time I didn't know what Blake's 7 was, and I
didn't want to spend that much money on an unknown thing. Ooohhh.... D'oh.
5. The Clinton Thing...
Well, I have stopped reading the newspapers. In fact, I haven't touched
one, except for the lightest of perusing, in over two months. Keep in mind
I majored in Journalism in college and graduate school. Everyone it seems
has a very vocal opinion about Clinton and his presidential penis.
Personally, I don't particularly object on a moral ground. My objection is
that:
Clinton, years ago, when he got married, stood in a church -- thus invoking
a Supreme Deity of some sort -- and said before all his friends -- thus
invoking his community -- that he (and Hillary) had come to a decision on
something important -- and that he wanted them all to bear witness to this
so that they would understand how much it mattered. In addition to this, he
got a marriage license -- thus invoking the legal community.
So I don't mind that he fooled around, that's not my place to mind. What I
mind is that he basically has demonstrated that he now considers one of the
biggest events of his life, an event that tied together aspects of his
faith, friends, and community, to have been a hollow mouthing of words.
We're not talking about promising to meet up with friends here.
Anyway, I tried to explain this opinion to the people at work but they kept
not letting me finish, so please forgive my rambling on the subject, but if
anyone -would- care to voice an opinion (private e-mail would probably be
best, so that I don't clog up the e-mail with this) I would certainly
welcome some critiquing of my thought patterns.
6. Speaking of work...
Can anyone recommend any good science fiction novels? I work at a Barnes
and Nobel and I feel I should try to read some of the less-well-known
authors in that genre (as it's where I work in the bookstore). Once again,
that one can be private e-mail, although I don't think it's too far afield
for the list.
Anyway, have a great week everyone.
Alex
-- And let's hear it for Dr. Frances Kelsey --
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:17:16 +1100 (EST)
From: kat@welkin.apana.org.au (Kathryn Andersen)
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se (Blake's 7 list)
Subject: [B7L] need Beta Reader
Message-Id: <m0xwjjI-0008r9C@welkin.apana.org.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
"Yes," she said, speaking in hope, "I need a Beta Reader."
To read - tada! - the next part of Winning Is The Only Safety, whose
first-ish draft is almost finished. It's only a first-ish draft, because
I've started it and ripped it up a couple of times since I started. The
plot now bears no resemblance to what I had originally intended when I
started the thing.
So. I need a beta reader, to rip it to shreds, and hand the tatters back
to me promptly. If possible, someone who is familiar with both Blake's 7
and Highlander (to tell me if I've got the characters right) or someone
not familiar with either (to tell me if it's completely incomprehensible).
Now you know how I spent the long weekend...
Kathryn Andersen
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Avon: We don't mind second-hand goods, do we Vila?
Vila: No, we're not fussy. (Blake's 7: Killer [B7])
--
_--_|\ | Kathryn Andersen <kat@welkin.apana.org.au>
/ \ | http://connexus.apana.org.au/~kat
\_.--.*/ | #include "std/disclaimer.h"
v |
------------| Melbourne -> Victoria -> Australia -> Southern Hemisphere
Maranatha! | -> Earth -> Sol -> Milky Way Galaxy -> Universe
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:42:11 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 1/2
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980126083206.22675G-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Louise Rutter wrote:
> >some of the
> >performances, the cliche of the religious cult leader
>
> But, but, but... that was Brian Blessed. He was being Brian Blessed. It's
> only a cliche because he's being doing it so long. It's like saying Clint
The character of Vargas, a crazed cult leader is a cliche.
Brian Blessed's performance has nothing to do with the cliche-ness of
the role. No matter who played the role, the role was a cliche. Brian
was over-the-top, Brian is always over-the-top, I love Brian's over-
the-topness. Although there are moments when he makes me wince in
"Cygnus Alpha," the same is true of several others. However, none of
them is as bad as, say, Governor LeGrand is "Voice from the Past."
> The other stuff you said was true, though. I think they had got from
> well-thought-out pilot that had to be wonderful to sell it people and into
> oh-my-god-what-do-i-do-with-a-tv-crew-and-five-days-to-write-a-script
> territory. :-)
The worst part isn't even the script, it's the shoddy editing
at the end. It takes ineptitude to new depths.
Sue
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:49:47 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Secrets of B/A revealed (many replies combined)
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980126084555.22675I-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Julia Jones wrote:
> Well, I probably could if I went through my notes for the "touching"
> lists I've been doing on Space City (and I apologise to the citizens for
Some people here might be interested in seeing those lists as
well...
> falling behind on that recently). I suspect that doing so would show
> that Avon was far more intense about Blake than the others, even though
> he's quite a toucher in general if you watch him rather than listen to
> him. Best one I can remember at the moment is the one below:
Between cuddling Blake and grabbing women, he's the most
tactile of the crew.
> He's not only all over Blake while Blake's screaming, there's the scene
> a bit later when Blake is unconscious and trussed up in the high backed
> chair, with the others standing around it. Avon is standing behind the
> chair, leaning on it. He isn't actually touching Blake, because of the
> chair design, but the impression of "protective hovering" is very
> strong.
Avon does hover near Blake a lot. My favorites are the bookend
scenes in "Horizon" where Blake is sitting on the couch and Avon is
sending behind him, bending over to talk to him. There's also the one
in "Breakdown" where Avon is kneeling while they discuss Zen going
off-line.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:12:56 -0500 (EST)
From: NWOutsider <sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu>
To: "Blake's 7 list" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Cygnus Alpha 2/2
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.95.980126090314.22675K-100000@alpha.bgsu.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Pat Patera wrote:
> yes. oh yes. you go grrl! how sad that the writers quit writing her
> these quips.
They stopped the quips and her fighting talents and left her
very little. They weren't all that great with the other women, either.
In fact, the limitations of the writers' imaginations are really
evident in the way the women's roles were written. Some were worse
than others, of course...Ben Steed and Robert Holmes are two names
that leap immediately to mind.
> I can only hope that fan writers take the opportunity to pen more
> wonderful verbal jabs for Jenna.
I think they're all hung up on Cally, Servalan, or Soolin
because of the Avon fixation. 8-)
> > JENNA: Could you kill someone? Face to face I mean.
> > AVON: I don't know. Could you?
> > JENNA: There's one sure way of finding out.
>
> This has to be my fave exchange from the whole series. I loved the
> moment so, it inspired me to write a 110,000 word zine, the whole
> storyline starting from that one exchange (Checkers - the perfect
> adversarial pair: Jenna in red, Avon in black).
Oh. Uh. I was really surprised to read this, Pat, because
when I read Checkers my impression was "here's someone who really
despises Jenna." The reason it hit me that way is that Jenna's
suffering is more extreme than Avon's, much more public humiliation
for instance, and it really bothered me. Then there was the problem
of what was going on with Blake. But the way Jenna was treated really
left a bad taste in my mouth and I figured you must just hate the
character.
Sue
sclerc@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~sclerc/Blakes7.html
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V98 Issue #25
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