From: blakes7-d-request@lysator.liu.se
Subject: blakes7-d Digest V00 #96
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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 96
Today's Topics:
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
RE: [B7L] cost of email
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
[B7L] Oblique B7 stuff up on site (fwd)
[B7L] Cheese-grater
[B7L] Pages Bar, Saturday April 8
Re: [B7L] Re: Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long)
Re: [B7L] Avon's skills
[B7L] Collector's Lot
RE: [B7L] cost of email
[B7L] Close Every Door To Me
RE: [B7L] cost of email
[B7L] MS3K/B7
[B7L] Cally's survival
[B7L] Re: [B7] Anna's attempted coup (Was: Avon's skills)
[B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
[B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures... the line expands
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women
Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures... the line expands
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
[B7L] Re: Fan Fiction
[B7L] RE: [B7] Avon's Skills
Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Re: [B7L] Page's Bar next weekend?
------------------------------
Date: 03 Apr 2000 08:00:52 +0200
From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <86zorbzpt7.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>>>> "Neil" == Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes:
> Neil (typing one handed while he scoffs his muesli)
A sure sign of an email addict ;-)
Next step: Logging in a and checking mail *immediately* after waking up.
--
Calle Dybedahl, Vasav. 82, S-177 52 Jaerfaella,SWEDEN | calle@lysator.liu.se
"Just about anything can be done if you are demented enough."
-- Christopher C. Petro, scary.devil.monastery
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 22:40:38 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <38E82ED5.8285972B@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Calle Dybedahl wrote:
> > Neil (typing one handed while he scoffs his muesli)
>
> A sure sign of an email addict ;-)
>
> Next step: Logging in a and checking mail *immediately* after waking up.
Uh-oh.
Mistral
--
"Consider it an adventure."--Galen, 'Crusade'
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:40:01 +0100
From: "Ariana" <ariana@ndirect.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <003a01bf9d38$a52ecb60$b5e407c3@ariana>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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From: Calle Dybedahl <calle@lysator.liu.se>
> >>>>> "Neil" == Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes:
>
> > Neil (typing one handed while he scoffs his muesli)
>
> A sure sign of an email addict ;-)
>
> Next step: Logging in a and checking mail *immediately* after waking up.
Oy! What's wrong with that?
1) Get up
2) Dowload e-mail
3) Make breakfast in meantime
4) Read e-mail while watching breakfast news and eating breakfast
Perfect morning. <g>
Ariana
http://www.alpha.ndirect.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:27:05 +0100
From: "Helm, Troy" <thelm@csw.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] cost of email
Message-Id: <200004030736.CAA02069@interlock.csw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Fri 31 Mar, Kathryn (not Judith) wrote:
> previous conversation.
It's text.......100 characters here or there has a negligible impact on
message size once packet headers and footers have been added.
Troy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:00:44 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004031058320.13993-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Una wrote:
<It's switching from video to film. Classic mark of 70s TV. Can't
understand
why those particular bits in the corridors are on film, as it's usually
location work done on film. It could be something to do with
filming/shooting schedules. Anyone?>
Actually, the shots of Blake and Avon in the corridor are taped; when they
enter the filter room, it switches to film. I believe this had lot to do
with scheduling. Not all the studio work could be done in the BBC
Television Centre but instead had to be done in Ealing Studios, which were
not equipped for videotaping but solely for using film cameras (I guess
that's where they also did most of the model shots which had to be
filmed).
I have noted that this switching between video for studio work and film
for location was (is?) a typical feature of British television drama. It's
of course quicker and more cost-effective than filming everything, while
still allowing for some location work that couldn't be done on video, but
it's a mongrel of a solution and especially with Blake's 7 it sometimes
creates a surreal effect (in my eyes at least). Though film has greater
resolution and greater depth of colour and needs less light than
videotape, the film stocks commonly used by the BBC are very grainy and
have the kind of depleted-looking colour stock that creates a huge
contrast to the electronic video images created in studios with bright and
even lighting. The video image looks cheaper and more plastic-like and
reveals the artificiality of the sets more readily, while the film shots
look like the home movies from Gulag Archipelago (like many cinema
enthusiasts around here joke, "Why is the picture so grey and dreary in
this programme? Oh, of course! It's British television!"). Both approaches
have their upsides and downsides, and it's a matter of taste which one you
prefer, but mixing them seamlessly is nearly impossible.
In my eyes this contrast has always been the thing that most draws my
attention away from the B7 story universe, even more than any deficiencies
in sets or FX. It sort of makes the editing less transparent because it
creates a kind of patched-together look (which can of course create
interesting effects at times), which breaks the illusion of unity. There
is more filming in studio in later episodes, just look at "Breakdown" and
the contrast between the surgical unit and the rest of the ship, or the
control room scenes in "Redemption". There was also one amusing contrast
in "Cygnus Alpha", where the men fight on film while Kara looks on and
stops the spear on tape. But then of course the greatest contrast is
between different exterior shots of the Liberator which are alternatively
filmed, taped or animated.
Not that I'm complaining. They do great things with both mediums. Just
rewatched "Shadow" the other day and I'm still impressed how striking they
made Cally's nasty encounter with Orac by using just a little lighting,
editing and video effects.
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:05:25 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <00ff01bf9d44$c63c97e0$0d01a8c0@codex>
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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Calle:
> >>>>> "Neil" == Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes:
>
> > Neil (typing one handed while he scoffs his muesli)
>
> A sure sign of an email addict ;-)
>
> Next step: Logging in a and checking mail *immediately* after waking up.
Which is what I'm currently doing. Git.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:40:49 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <011701bf9d48$57385920$0d01a8c0@codex>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kai wrote:
> I have noted that this switching between video for studio work and film
> for location was (is?) a typical feature of British television drama.
Was. These days I think you tend to see either straightforward videotape or
videotape treated to look like film. Tho' I'm sure some film stuff gets made
as well.
> (like many cinema
> enthusiasts around here joke, "Why is the picture so grey and dreary in
> this programme? Oh, of course! It's British television!").
No, that's really how the 1970s looked over here <ducks to avoid bricks from
Alison>
Una
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:27:20 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Oblique B7 stuff up on site (fwd)
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0403082720-b49Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
-------------------------------------
Feel free to forward to any appropriate list.
Oblique Publications finally has some of its Blake's 7 slash up and
available on its website at http://www.oblique-publications.net
Bene Dictum II: Half 'n' Half (published Feb. 1995) contains 4 B7 stories.
(The balance of the zine is Pros.)
--Open All Hours (Avon/Blake) by M. Fae Glasgow
The Night Watch (Avon/Blake) by Erszebet Bathory
Bothy (Avon/Vila) by M. Fae Glasgow
Clean Slate (Avon/Blake) by M. Fae Glasgow
The stories are available in PDF format and require the free software (or
browser plug-in) Adobe Reader to view. PDF format retains the exact look
of the original published zine pages and will print easily on many
people's printers.
Additional B7 stories (that is, the 6 Oblaques and 5 of the Paean to
Priapus zines that contain B7) will be added to the site over the coming
months. They are being uploaded in reverse chronological order of
original publication.
For further information, please contact oblique@oblique-publications.net.
-----------------------------------
footnote from Judith - Oblique publications tend to appeal to those who like
bleak stories with a more hard-core focus than is common. If you want slash
stories about happy loving relationships without much explict sex, then avoid
Oblique. On the other hand, if your tastes run in that direction, then M.Fae
Glasgow writes some of the best around.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:06:28 +0100
From: Alison Page <alison_page@becta.org.uk>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Cheese-grater
Message-ID: <21B0197931E1D211A26E0008C79F6C4AB0C4CB@BRAMLEY>
Content-Type: text/plain
Harriet said -
> the mysterious 'lion on the cheese-grater', although no one has worked out
quite what that involves."=
I would think the man on his fingers and tip-toes
Alison
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:17:49 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "Blake's 7 (Lysator)" <BLAKES7@lysator.liu.se>,
Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Pages Bar, Saturday April 8
Message-ID: <200004030818_MC2-9FAE-FE1A@compuserve.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To remind those thinking of coming (or those who haven't given it a thought
yet), some of us in reach of London are hoping to meet at Pages Bar (corner
of Page Street and Marsham Street, nearest Tube = Pimlico) on the evening
of Saturday, April 8.
Likely suspects are Carol (over from the US), Calle (over from Sweden),
Alison, Una, Nicola, Chris, me if I get back from Nottingham, Steve if he
gets back from Singapore.
The bar opens (and you can still hear yourself speak) at five; I'm unlikely
to get there much before seven, but I think some of the others may be
aiming for six.
No point in writing to me about it now, though, as I've got to leave for
London and will be out of email contact for a few days beforehand, so if
you need to communicate about it better write to each other via the list...
Hoping to see whoever makes it if I do!
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 09:40:09 +0100
From: Russ Massey <russ@wriding.demon.co.uk>
To: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
Cc: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Time Squad - A Cally Perspective (long)
Message-ID: <ZjniZDApjF64Ew45@wriding.demon.co.uk>
In message <200004021918_MC2-9F7D-DFC1@compuserve.com>,
Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com> writes
>Russ wrote, in his extremely interesting Cally perspective:
>>Her last shot is in response to Jenna's comment as to the
>>wisdom of bringing aliens aboard. She shows no reaction.
>
>Oh, go on, she smirks broadly. I've got a lovely picture of it from Paul
>James's site.
>
I'd have to rewatch the scene again to be certain, but I thought that
her 'smirk' was already there before Jenna spoke and didn't alter at
all. My impression was that she was deliberately suppressing any
reaction to the insult.
--
Russ Massey
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:50:19 GMT
From: "Mat Shayde" <dorian17@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Avon's skills
Message-ID: <20000403125019.13995.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
<snip>
> >Anna could have used her real name for a variety of reasons in this
> >case;
>
>But we should remember that even within the service she does not even use
>her real name, some people even think Bartholemew is a man (sexist or what
>? - probably a very old spin, but what other blatant sexist things do we
>have in B7 ?).
Umm, to be fair Bartholomew *is* a man's name. (Bart, as in Simpson, for
short.) I don't think that the assumption that Bartholomew is a man is
anything to do with sexism - if Avon had one the bank fraud calling himself
Jennifer people would have assumed that he was a women. (Now there's an
interesting alias!)
Even for a prolonged background assignment, she uses a false
>name (Sula), so it must be normal for her to use a false name. Use of her
>real name is an exception and would have a compelling reason.
>
> >if he were indeed guilty he would be dead or deported for life
> >and her identity would be in no danger.
>
>Don't buy that because if Avon IS into something bigger, her cover could
>easily be blown when she starts to get close to the rest of the team.
I never really thought that there was a team - Avon is too much of a loner
for that. I always assumed that the 'other people' he relied on was
basically the guy who sold him the visas and then tried to turn him in.
Dorian - "You mean you're here by choice?"
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:02:11 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Collector's Lot
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0403150211-965Rr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
A reminder that the Blake's 7 episode of Collector's Lot will be tomorrow,
Tuesday, at 3.30 on channel 4.
It's mentioned on channel 4's teletext page 331 and is also on their web site.
Judith
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:30:17 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] cost of email
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0403103017-06cRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
On Mon 03 Apr, Helm, Troy wrote:
> On Fri 31 Mar, Kathryn (not Judith) wrote:
>
> > previous conversation.
>
> It's text.......100 characters here or there has a negligible impact on
> message size once packet headers and footers have been added.
>
(Kathryn not Judith again)
I am sitting here typing this reply partly because Judith has such neck and
shoulder pain that every key-click hurts (and partly because *I* find repeated
posts annoying too). Every bit of a message that Judith has to scroll past is
one more key-click, one more jab of pain. I know that Judith is an exception to
the vast majority of posters, but surely common courtesy would dictate that even
considering the exceptions, when it also benefits the majority, just by simply
*cutting out* the unnecessary repetition (and wasted verbage), which will take
one all of two seconds to do, is something that *everyone* should commit to.
Kathryn (wondering if she is channeling Julia)
(Judith has just pointed out to me that Julia also suffers from RSI, not
to mention Sondra Sweigman who has tendonitis. So that's three already.)
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:35:05 +0100 (BST)
From: Judith Proctor <Judith@blakes-7.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
cc: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Subject: [B7L] Close Every Door To Me
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.46-0403113505-bbaRr9i@blakes-7.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
This is the Rashel one which kept on being postponed (you don't want to know
about the studs).
Close Every Door To Me
(tune from Joseph and the Amazing Technicolour Dreamcoat)
by Judith Proctor and Kathryn Andersen
(inspired by watching Weapon - with the intent of doing one about Carnell, but
Rashel wouldn't go away, so she has been promised a song of her own.)
Rashel:
Close every door to me
Hide all the world from me
Keep me in ignorance
Shut out the light.
Do what you want with me
Hate me and laugh at me
Darken my daytime
And ravish my nights.
If my life were important, I
Would ask, will I live or die?
But I know the answers lie
Far from my world.
Close every door to me
Say there's no love for me
When you're a bond-slave
You're always alone
But I know I shall find
My own peace of mind
For there must be somewhere
A place of my own.
Clone #2:
Just give me a number
Instead of my name
Kill my companion
And let him decay.
I do not matter
I'm only a clone
Destroy me completely
Then throw me away.
If my life were important, I
Would ask, will I live or die?
But I know the answers lie
Far from this world.
Both:
Every door closed to us,
Yet love has come to us,
All life is linked --
You are never alone.
Now we know we shall find
Our own peace of mind
For we have discovered
A world of our own.
--
http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs,
pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth
Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.nas.com/~lknight )
Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:03:23 +0100
From: "Helm, Troy" <thelm@csw.com>
To: Lysator List <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: RE: [B7L] cost of email
Message-Id: <200004031513.KAA07089@interlock.csw.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
> On Fri 31 Mar, Kathryn (not Judith) wrote:
>> cutting out* the unnecessary repetition (and wasted verbage), which will
take
one all of two seconds to do, is something that *everyone* should commit to.
So you repeated yourself..........!! ; )
Troy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 20:38:45 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] MS3K/B7
Message-ID: <20000403.093431.-96107.0.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Vila settled himself comfortably in the overstuffed, reclining chair, a
drink in one hand, and bag of chips in the other and turned on the
vid-screen. Between Zen and Orac, he'd been able to dig up all sorts of
old, contraband films the Federation didn't allow anyone to watch
anymore. He thought he'd hit the jackpot when they downloaded all the
old WWF vids. Then, he'd discovered this latest, the real motherload of
quality entertainment.
Avon came in then, probably looking for those engineering tools Vila had
(oh, er, hmm) _borrowed_ for that lock Cally had put on the adrenalin and
soma. He stopped and stared at the screen. "Vila, what is that?"
"Mystery Science Theatre. Sh, they're about to do the opening song. It
explains everything."
Avon stood there, a look of stunned disbelief spreading across his face
as the song explained how a mad scientist and his assistant imprisoned a
man on a satellite and tortured him with bad movies. "Why would anyone
-" He stopped. Although Vila, eyes glued to the screen, didn't see it,
Avon looked at Joel, trapped in solitary confinement in his satellite and
screaming in horror as another bad movie began. Then he looked
speculatively at Vila.
Avon gathered up his missing tools and went to talk with Orac. He had a
new project in mind ....
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:05:57 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Cally's survival
Message-ID: <20000403.093431.-96107.1.rilliara@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Noticed the question came up of how _Cally_ could have survived after
_Avon_ said she was dead.
1) Avon had some sneaky reason for pretending he knew Cally was dead
(such as ruthlessly keeping others from walking into a potential death
trap or [less nastily] he and the not-wounded-nearly-as-badly-as-you
would-think Cally saw some advantage in this. Or maybe he just didn't
want to depress everyone with how the captain of the first plot
conveniece rescue ship had only had room for one passenger, decided to
take her and left the others to wait for whatever came along next).
2) Avon made a mistake (please, don't hurt me for saying that).
Ways Avon could have been mistaken.
A) Cally was in a death-like coma
Either because Auron physiology is very different or because, as resident
meditation prone alien, she knew a thing or two about death-like trances
you can slip into when badly wounded, she seemed dead but wasn't.
B) Something made her appear dead
Poison, strange drugs, etc. Especially as this was Terminal with its
man-eating, purple worms, I don't think we can rule this out.
C) It wasn't Cally
Skipping bad lighting and what kind of condition the body might be in at
this point (it could have gotten quite messy in there), it wouldn't take
that much for Avon to make a mistake. Sufficient, more or less humaniod
remains to convince him there was a dead person would be enough. He
THINKS there's only a certain number of people on the planet. So, unless
the body were recognizeably NOT Cally's, he would assume it was.
This is assuming no one had motive or opportunity to stick something in
there Avon could mistake for Cally's dead body, never a safe assumption
in B7.
D) Seeing is not believing
Let's look at Avon's record at this point. He THOUGHT he saw Blake (and
possibly a teddy bear) earlier that day. He's still probably full of the
drugs necessary for that. He also once thought he saw his brother on
Liberator. Between Zen-like computers, telepaths, and Federation
scientists, there's a host of known entities who could have taken
advantage of this and let him SEE a dead Cally (Cally herself, being
wounded and possibly hallucinating, could have projected the image he
thought he saw). He also hasn't slept in 72 hours or more. He might be
seeing all sorts of things at this point with out help from anyone.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:03:44 +0000
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: [B7] Anna's attempted coup (Was: Avon's skills)
Message-Id: <l03110702b50e7bfeee2d@[134.226.96.44]>
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Pat Patera said:
>>It is interesting to note that Anna Grant actually achieved this
>>'military coup' objective (well, almost).
I'm afraid that I'd have to disagree with you here, Pat. Anna and her
followers were in no danger of overthrowing the Federation. While they
managed to capture Servalan, does anyone honestly believe that the military
would obey orders from a President and Supreme Commander they knew to be a
prisoner? I recall Frederick the Great leaving orders that if he was
captured in battle, any commands supposedly coming from him were not to be
obeyed.
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:32:43 +0000
From: Murray Smith <mjsmith@tcd.ie>
To: Lysator <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-Id: <l03110704b50e834da596@[134.226.96.44]>
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Ariana,
I love this episode too. The first thing I like about it expands our mental
horizons; we realise that there is more to the B7 universe than just the
Federation, the B7 crew, and aliens. We see humans who are independent of
the Federation, but who still have their own problems, with an all too
familiar story of murder and theft.
>It's the Avon and Cally show. Mr Wonderful is transformed into Sherlock
>Holmes for an episode, and Cally actually gets to do some thinking and
>fighting. After the last couple of episodes, I was beginning to wonder what
>people saw in Cally. Now I see it.
I'm glad that you do.<g>
>In this episode, she proves to be intelligent and resourceful, and another
>female who does not scream despite ample opportunity to do so. I think even
>I might have let out a peep in that stock room. But the screaming was left
>to Sara -- and was later revealed not to be the stereotypical reaction of
>another hysterical sci-fi female, but a clever ploy to make herself look
>innocent. It's always nice when a show does manage to avoid an obvious
>stereotype.
I liked this subversion _very_ much.
>Speaking of which, it was interesting to to see Avon do something else than
>twiddle knobs and snarl a lot. He still does plenty of both, but also gets
>to strut around with his hands behind his back, putting on a fine display of
>Holmesian superciliousness. It does add a bit more depth to the character,
>with the notion that he can be motivated by curiosity as well as greed and
>self-interest. I suppose that's part of the reason he's still on the
>Liberator and not living it up on some planet somewhere.
He does remind me of Sherlock Holmes, who only took many cases because they
were intellectually challenging. I loved his comment about not caring if
Destiny turned into a mushroom; he just disliked an unsolved mystery.
>I do have a few nits about the Liberator's trip to Destiny. If it would take
>the Ortega five months to get back to Destiny at sub-light speed, doesn't
>that mean they should be pretty much in Destiny's solar system?
>
>Blake embarks on a mission to transport a crucial cargo to a planet, and he
>doesn't even check to see that it's still in the box before leaving?
I agree with you that the stuff aboard the Liberator was silly; I
concentrate on what's happening aboard the Ortega. Also, either the
explosive device that Blake placed on the entry hatch was quite powerful,
or else the ship that came to pick Sara up was quite small.
Murray
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:20:01 +0100
From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] B7 Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <002c01bf9d99$e07cdde0$e535fea9@neilfaulkner>
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Since others have offered ideas on what they like in fanfic...
Plausibility - of plot, of characters, and especially background. I like
that stories that imply, if not actually portray, a whole great heaving
galactic society.
Imaginative writing - wit, style, imagery, symbolism ect.
Conscious and deliberate expansion of the canon, as opposed to conscious and
deliberate self-constraint within it.
I like stories that are aggressive, provocative, that challenge the
assumptions codified within the series and the body of fanfic itself. I
don't like stories that seem to have been written to solicit the approval of
the general fan readership.
Neil
"I am not a man, I am a free number."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 07:48:51 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] First impressions: "Mission to Destiny"
Message-ID: <kQV+dJAT7D64EwdG@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <86zorbzpt7.fsf@tezcatlipoca.algonet.se>, Calle Dybedahl
<calle@lysator.liu.se> writes
>>>>>> "Neil" == Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net> writes:
>
>> Neil (typing one handed while he scoffs his muesli)
>
>A sure sign of an email addict ;-)
>
>Next step: Logging in a and checking mail *immediately* after waking up.
Oops.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:31:38 -0700
From: Helen Krummenacker <avona@jps.net>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures... the line expands
Message-ID: <38E8D57A.22D2@jps.net>
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Carnell figure comes with
marionette strings which attatch to other figures.
Fluttering eyelashes
Escape ship
Bayban action figure comes with
Studded gauntlets (sized interchangably with Avon doll)
foam for frothing at mouth
Patchwork coat for those who'd rather have him be a Doctor action figure
Del Grant figure comes with
Blinders to avoid seeing evidence of his sister's true life
Bomb action set, fun to assemble and disassemble
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:56:44 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <90.28557ba.261a436c@aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/2/00 9:29:14 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
dshilling@worldnet.att.net writes:
> The disconcerting thing about the "real" B7 is that, if anything, the show
> punishes Avon for excessive optimism. Instead of teaching Avon that trust
> and cohesion are essential, it affirms his perception that trusting Anna
and
> Blake was a mistake and a weakness. In fact, it shows him that the
> consequences were even worse than he imagined.
Exactly! You could *never* sell a show like B7 to an American network - it's
all too morally ambiguous. Not to mention that somebody would start
bellowing about *glorifying terrorists* sooner rather than later. Just like
you could never put La Femme Nikita on one of the mainstream networks, for
the same reasons.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:56:43 EDT
From: Pherber@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Vila's taste in women
Message-ID: <42.398b650.261a436b@aol.com>
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In a message dated 4/2/00 5:32:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
j_macqueen@hotmail.com writes:
> One also wonders if Soolin is fluffier than she looks, given Vila's
interest
> in her.
Nah. She just appreciates the comic relief, so she doesn't bother to scare
him off.
Nina
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:11:16 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: blakes7 action figures... the line expands
Message-ID: <49.25145cf.261a46d4@aol.com>
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Bravo Avona! There are some great guests that could have their own dolls.
I'm waiting to hear about the Jarriere doll ....
Trish
Carnell figure comes with
marionette strings which attatch to other figures.
Fluttering eyelashes
Escape ship
Bayban action figure comes with
Studded gauntlets (sized interchangably with Avon doll)
foam for frothing at mouth
Patchwork coat for those who'd rather have him be a Doctor action figure
Del Grant figure comes with
Blinders to avoid seeing evidence of his sister's true life
Bomb action set, fun to assemble and disassemble
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:13:05 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Kai V Karmanheimo <karmanhe@cc.helsinki.fi>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.0004032209420.9343-100000@kruuna.Helsinki.FI>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
<One of the compelling qualities of B7 is its utter estrangement from the
norms of American TV (and, as an American, I have far more exposure to the
US than the British product)>
A very interesting post, Dana. Some of my very un-American thoughts in
reply.
<Although an American version of B7 would gain in some ways (American
actors
don't go to the pub, they go to the gym; Americans wait until they have
enough money to produce a TV show before producing a TV show...) it would
never be able to achieve the wonderfully disconcerting quality of the
original.>
Oh, I can picture the American version: Blake's long heroic speeches about
freedom accompanied by a "stirring" Jerry Goldsmith score, after which all
the crew, even the grumpy but lovable old uncle Avon, would be ready to
follow him to the gates of hell; Orac repeatedly reduced to incoherence by
human irrationality, yet constantly longing to become one; Cally speaking
in a foreign accent and telling mystical, New Age wisdoms, while learning
how much nicer it is to be a human; Dayna there just because you need some
colour (well, some things don't change); Vila doing something stupid to
endanger the crew in every episode but learning a valuable lesson in the
process and after saying how sorry he is, forgiven and joining in for the
mandatory group hug at the end of the episode; a lovable space mutt called
Gan as a pet; lots of references to baseball and somebody always telling
small moral allegories about how he lost some important match as a kid
because he traded his trusty old glove for a new one; the guest cast
chosen so that you can always tell whether some character is really a good
guy or not by his accent; Jenna played by some one who was cast more for
the prominence of her silicone implants rather than her acting talent...
<The disconcerting thing about the "real" B7 is that, if anything, the
show
punishes Avon for excessive optimism. Instead of teaching Avon that trust
and cohesion are essential, it affirms his perception that trusting Anna
and
Blake was a mistake and a weakness. In fact, it shows him that the
consequences were even worse than he imagined.>
Avon's fall into Servalan's Blake trap in "Terminal" would certainly
qualify as a punishment for optimism, though with "Blake" I'd say it's his
mistrust and panicky action that prove to be his mistake and
weakness. Still, your post made think about why the pessimism of this show
is so disconcerting. Certainly having your heroes gunned down is not what
you're likely to see in American TV, but I think there is a more universal
sense of optimism and expectations that the show violates. Though we have
tragedy and more and more unhappy endings in fiction (even in the
conservative world of television), we are still not ready to accept these
solutions as easily as the more life-affirming, positive endings.
When we were playing the squash ladder game last year, I mentioned that
"Rumours of Death" reminded me of a Greek tragedy, i.e. the protagonist
strives for justice (revenge) but by doing so is destroyed
(damaged) himself, as nothing was as he in his ignorance thought it was,
while the audience, who always know more than the protagonist, are gripped
by their helplessness to do nothing more than to watch the events run
their unavoidable course (this could also be applied to the end of
"Blake"). Recently I read an article discussing some of the developments
in story-telling conventions from the time of the ancient Greeks to
today. One interesting idea concerned how different our expectations are
when it comes to unhappy endings. Our whole western tradition of
story-telling is permeated by the influence of Judeo-Christian tradition
which imposes certain expectations: Good will triumph over Evil, justice
will be done (eventually), the guilty are punished, the righteous
rewarded. This kind of optimism is part of our culture and makes us expect
a happy ending at the end of the story, the default setting of our mental
strategy programme. So it always is more shocking when it doesn't happen
that way, when your heroes are gunned down, when your sense of justice is
violated, simply when the moral suddenly seems to be, "And the ruthless,
immoral bastards shall inherit the Earth, not to mention the rest of the
universe". We don't expect this in fiction, perhaps because we see enough
of it in the real world.
So it's not just American tradition that Blake's 7 goes against. It's over
two thousand years of story-telling tradition
desperately crying: "NO! DON'T DO IT!" All in vain...
Kai
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 15:30:28 EDT
From: Prmolloy@aol.com
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <ee.3472fad.261a4b54@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Well done analysis by Dana and Kai, and clearly why I no longer watch
American TV. (Really how many "I want to be a Millionaire" shows are there
now?)
I particularly liked Kai's comments about 2000 years of Judeo-Christian
beliefs imposing consistent expectations, easily seen in popular culture, but
perhaps also apparent in the number of human beings treated for psychological
issues, and the booming rate of depression (at least in the U.S.)
Kai wrote:
>> Recently I read an article discussing some of the developments
>> in storytelling conventions from the time of the ancient Greeks to
>> today. One interesting idea concerned how different our expectations are
>> when it comes to unhappy endings. Our whole western tradition of
>> storytelling is permeated by the influence of Judeo-Christian tradition
>> which imposes certain expectations: Good will triumph over Evil, justice
>> will be done (eventually), the guilty are punished, the righteous
>> rewarded. This kind of optimism is part of our culture and makes us expect
>> a happy ending at the end of the story, the default setting of our mental
>> strategy programme. So it always is more shocking when it doesn't happen
>> that way, when your heroes are gunned down, when your sense of justice is
>> violated, simply when the moral suddenly seems to be, "And the ruthless,
>> immoral bastards shall inherit the Earth, not to mention the rest of the
>> universe". We don't expect this in fiction, perhaps because we see enough
>> of it in the real world.
I wonder also how our expectations have changed as we in an industrialized
societies shifting to an information society are completely removed from the
element of survival. No longer fighting for our very lives, and believing in
a benevolent creator, we have lost an appreciation of the fact that Nature is
savage. Most reject the concept of Survival of the Fittest, and instead have
shifted to the view that our social structures must not only provide safety
for its citizens through police and military, but must take care of the
weakest members of society. With this type of social belief, we inevitably
are shocked by death, violence, and tragedy. I wonder if that if why in some
ways we are so drawn to it through news programs, movies of the week, etc.
Any anthropologists in the lyst can correct me, but my understanding is that
those who coexist with Nature at its most elemental forms view death and
violence with a completely different perception, and don't necessarily regard
it as great tragedy.
Trish
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:44:26 -0400
From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: Fan Fiction
Message-ID: <014e01bf9d9c$a4e6a060$5aac4e0c@dshilling>
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I'm sure this isn't the right way to do it, but I've never seen a broadcast
episode of B7, am up to Episode 36 watching the tapes, and have read a good
deal of online fanfic (surmises as to preferred genre are accurate) and
finished one story and am working on three more.
I got interested in the first place because it sounded like a pretty
interesting slash site with a useless science fiction series wrapped around
it (like a four-foot-long UPS box containing twelve pounds of packing
peanuts and the much smaller item you actually ordered). Experience has not
changed this initial conception.
Just as Cecily in "The Importance of Being Earnest" fell in love with
Algernon several months before actually meeting him, I suspected a
predilection for Avon drool. Now I am two and twenty*, and oh tis true tis
true! (*Poetic license. Actually 47 but it's never too late to have a happy
childhood.)
When I was a kid, I used to run home from school and write short stories for
a couple of hours every afternoon. When I got to college, I stopped writing
fiction. I tripped headlong into fandom at a somewhat uninspired point in my
life, and having multiple story ideas, actual plotlines, and dialogue that
the characters seem to be telling me instead of vice versa--feels like a
bloody miracle.
As to whether the results are any good--that's not my field.
-(Y)
"Because you're never fully dressed without a snarl"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:58:19 -0700
From: "Otewalt, Andrew" <Andrew.Otewalt@kla-tencor.com>
To: "'blakes7@lysator.liu.se'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] RE: [B7] Avon's Skills
Message-ID: <3B5D5F691204D3118C0400A0C911A490012F9021@milxpr05.kla-tencor.com>
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hello list -
i was watching the first episode last week, and it is very interesting.
has anyone thought about the cost of transporting convicts to prison planets
?
i would think in on a planet that has to drug it's citizens so they wont
revolt, that the workforce productivity would be as low as their moral.
a drugged worker isn't leading the revolt, nor are they leading the
workforce to out produce the other shifts.
so, low productivity means less resources available to the federation.
i forget how long the trip to, eh, now i forget the name of the prison
planet that blake & co. get sent to.
anyway, it was a long trip, wasn't it at least a couple of weeks ?
a space flight like that has got to cost and arm and a leg, so to speak.
it would have been much much cheaper to just kill them all.
" ah ha !", i can hear you say, " the federation can't just kill them ! "
why not ?
there really didn't seem to be any communication between the prison planet
and earth, so there was no need to keep anybody alive to fake vids and other
forms of communication.
sending them to the prison planet is the same as putting them far, far out
of reach to everybody else.
and just a step farther than that would be to kill them.
yes, capitol punishment is a bit harsh, but there are plenty of signs that
life is cheap inside the federation.
the whole assembly in the tunnels as well as the defense and his wife (
girlfriend ? ) were killed to cover up the framming of blake.
so, why keep them alive ?
i guess it is simply a way to keep the story going.
it is all just a grand plot device.
are there other signs that life is cheap in the federation ?
are there other signs of huge expense in one area but amazing frugality in
other areas ?
i welcome feedback, list or private email.
- andrew -
andrew.otewalt@kla-tencor.com
( i am a different andrew from the other Andrew ( with a capital A ) on the
list. )
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 16:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: sjk3@cornell.edu
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] UnAmerican Activities
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.1000403161333.4319B-100000@travelers.mail.cornell.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
There have been some very interesting posts in this thread, especially
Kai's on Greek tragedy and the expectations of Western civilization.
That said, not all American TV is Star Trek! Sure, there's lots of bad
American TV out there, but I'm sure European TV has its share of bad
programming too. We just don't see a lot of it in the US. Then again,
maybe everybody *likes* Teletubbies?
> Exactly! You could *never* sell a show like B7 to an American network - it's
> all too morally ambiguous. Not to mention that somebody would start
> bellowing about *glorifying terrorists* sooner rather than later. Just like
> you could never put La Femme Nikita on one of the mainstream networks, for
> the same reasons.
>
> Nina
Which, of course, explains why Babylon 5 never sold (nor ran for 5
years on American TV, nor sold to the European market). :-)
Sandra Kisner, long-time lystmember, infrequent poster
sjk3@cornell.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:32:09 +0200
From: Steve Kilbane <steve@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Page's Bar next weekend?
Message-Id: <200004032232.XAA01400@whitecrow.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
It's entirely plausible that:
http://www.whitecrow.demon.co.uk/steve/pagesbar/map.html
is a map to pages bar. I've followed more direct routes recently,
but this is simple (the streets along the direct routes have weird
angles).
I'm *not* going to be there, on account of k and I moving into our
new place in Edinburgh this weekend, plus I've already done the
"go from Edinburgh to London for a night in a pub" thing once this
year, and it's not something I can manage frequently. :-)
Many Lyst members signed up for Eastercon this year? I know that a
reasonable chunk of the Rememption Committee are going, but is anyone
else?
steve
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End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #96
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