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blakes7-d Digest Volume 00 : Issue 183
Today's Topics:
[B7L] Fave episodes
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
[B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones)
[B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones etc.)
[B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones )
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
[B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
[B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #182
Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
[B7L] Blake's Jerusalem
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
[B7L] Re: fav episodes
Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 16:11:05 +-100
From: Louise Rutter <Louise.Rutter@btinternet.com>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Fave episodes
Message-ID: <01BFE1F5.52F52D60@host62-7-24-232.btinternet.com>
Somewhat belated, RLs been busy, but here's the list:
1) Blake - how could it be anything else? This episode not only ended B7,
it defined it. It's the reason that B7 stuck in my mind the way it did
through all the B7-less years when I didn't know about fandom or zines or
APAs. The episode hits you with disaster after disaster, offers the brief
hope of sanctuary with Blake's group and then leaves you completely
devastated. In the 18 years since I first saw this episode, I've watched a
lot of TV, and I can name maybe 2 or 3 episodes of other series which have
come close to this emotional impact. This is TV at its absolute best.
2) Terminal - more stunning TV. The scenes on Liberator, the Blake/Avon
"meeting", the scenes with Servalan at the end are all fantastic. The
destruction of Liberator as a symbol of the rebellion - what a stunning
spaceship design that was. Dudley Simpson avoids intrusive music and leaves
us with that great pulsing heartbeat on the planet, which really builds the
tension. The only weak point is the Links, and Servalan's even weaker
explanation of what they are.
3) Rumours of Death - and everybody else has already said why this is so
cool (especially Neil's explanation). I love Anna - I find her very
plausible as the type of woman Avon would fall for, she's fascinating and I
think Lorna Heilbron did a great job.
Angst? Me? Nah....
4) Star One - I can't add anything more to what's been said. It's the
culmination of all the political strife and the moral questions, our
wonderful Servalan stages her coup, all the crew get a chance to shine.
Brilliant scripting.
5) Shadow - this is the first truly brilliant episode of B7, raising all
those moral questions and political wrangling and shadiness. Largo and Bek
are fantastic, and once again teh whole crew gets a fair share of the
action with sparkling dialogue.
And it's another 4 out of 5 for Boucher, inevitably.
If I'm allowed to add a number 6, it will have to be Gold, because I find
the plot a pure delight with all its little twists, and I love Keiller.
Tarrant pretending to be a dazed drug addict is just the highlight of an
episode that's fun from start to finish.
Louise
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:02:32 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "'B7 Lysator'" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes
Message-ID: <0cca01bfe1f4$35be5880$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Louise wrote:
> 5) Shadow - this is the first truly brilliant episode of B7
I think that's absolutely right, you know; altho' 'The Way Back' is
something special.
> raising all those moral questions and political wrangling and shadiness.
Aha, I think that's what the difference is. There are clearly good guys and
bad guys in TWB.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:49:51 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <00b201bfe1fa$e20f7280$500c9ad8@cgorman>
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Jessica Taylor added
> Steve (Dobson) wrote:
> >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> >between Avon and Blake every other episode.
>
>
> And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the
> phrase "It's gonna blow".
> But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American
> version.
Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot
more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant
and Dayna.
Been having problems with the list. Sending messages to it, but they're not
coming back. Other peoples messages are though. Hope this works.
Steve Dobson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:12:31 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones)
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Jessica Taylor added :
> >Steve (Dobson) wrote:
> >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> >between Avon and Blake every other episode.
>
>
> And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the
> phrase "It's gonna blow".
> But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American
> version.
>
Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot
more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant
and Dayna.
Steve Dobson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 07:59:22 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones etc.)
Message-ID: <00b701bfe1c1$8a147f00$7a0d9ad8@cgorman>
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Jessica Taylor added in :
> Steve (Dobson) wrote:
> >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> >between Avon and Blake every other episode.
>
> And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the
> phrase "It's gonna blow".
> But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American
> version.
>
Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot
more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant
and Dayna.
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:28:42 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Hollywood B7 (was Stuart Jones )
Message-ID: <001501bfe1ef$8c50c480$500c9ad8@cgorman>
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Jessica Taylor added :
> Steve (Dobson) wrote:
> >Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> >between Avon and Blake every other episode.
>
>
> And lots of heroic speeches, not to mention the drastic overuse of the
> phrase "It's gonna blow".
> But I'd prefer to think of it as a Hollywood version than an American
> version.
>
Yes, your right, Hollywood version is a better name. Might have been a lot
more than kissing between some of the cast too - Avon and Servalan, Tarrant
and Dayna.
Steve Dobson
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:06:18 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <0c6e01bfe1ec$5b211750$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Neil wrote:
> From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
> > Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody
alien...
> > I think it's an example of trying to do something beyond the capacity of
the
> > show. And that mars 'Trial' for me. For something to be the best of the
> > best, it has to know its format and use it.
>
> I rather like Zil, as a failed-but-worthy attempt to portray something
> genuinely alien rather than go down the easy ST latexhead route. Pushing
at
> the limits and getting knocked flat is, in some ways, more laudable than
> playing safe.
Hmm, phrased myself badly. Yes, I agree with that. But pushing at the limits
and pulling it off is even more impressive.
> > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > > Best Boots in the entire series.
> >
> > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair
> > <handbag>
>
> I didn't notice any spots but then I wasn't looking at her chin:)
I notice you don't deny the greasy hair.
> But it's one of Boucher's talents that he can make 45 minutes of
> next-to-nothing compellingly watchable:)
A la 'Deathwatch'!
> If there *had* been a more complex
> plot it would have defused the ending, so he opted for a clean and simple
> narrative with a very clear sense of direction. Just what the episode
> needed.
Or misdirection, I think. The whole episode is one of miscommunication and
half-understood remarks.
> > > So out of nine favourite episodes, only six were penned by Chris
Boucher.
> > > Odd.
> >
> > Funny, that. I note four out of my top five were Boucher scripts also.
>
> Now why might that be?
Can't possibly begin to account for it. Um, it couldn't be something to do,
say, with him being fucking excellent?
Una
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:45:48 +0100 (BST)
From: Iain Coleman <ijc@bsfiles.nerc-bas.ac.uk>
To: Freedom City <freedom-city@blakes-7.org>
Cc: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Message-Id: <Pine.OSF.3.96.1000629172231.18831C-100000@bsauasc>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Sat, 24 Jun 2000, Una McCormack wrote:
> I just got back from delivering a paper on the Q study at a conference in
> cultural studies in Birmingham. It's quite an important conference on the
> circuit, so I was fairly chuffed to get the paper accepted. I was even more
> chuffed when Henry Jenkins ('Textual Poachers' guy) turned up specially to
> hear it!
>
> Unfortunately, we'd had to shift round the order of papers slightly and I'd
> already spoken, but this ended up working in my favour as 1. I was already
> nervous enough thank you very much; and, 2. it meant he came to speak to me
> afterwards and asked for a copy of the paper, so email addresses were
> exchanged <happy little jig>
>
Excellent! I hope you gave him our love.
> As a result of the paper, I also made contact with some academics working on
> TVSF in the UK,
Christ. How many of them are there?
and one of them invited me to give a paper at a panel he's
> doing on 'The Creations of Terry Nation'.
I'm all jealous now.
Woo hoo! I'm going to argue that
> B7 was a Chris Boucher creation rather than a Terry Nation one, and I throw
> that one over to you all for closer scrutiny!
B7 is a collective creation, like any drama. (Note: anyone using the word
'auteur' in my presence who is not (a) French and (b) talking about books
will experience my unrestrained bile.) To argue about whose creation it
is, you have to think carefully about what you mean by creation.
Obviously, there's a clear sense in which Terry Nation was the creator.
However, if we ask about what makes B7 unique, about who created that part
of the show that is distinctly its own and differentiates it from any
other TV space opera, then it has to be Boucher.
I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm
afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal
all.
>
> Can I thank everyone again for contributing to the study, and then debating
> the results with me? I had a brilliant evening last night, and it's because
> of all the people round here.
Happy to be of service, although the real credit is all yours. I'm glad
the conference went well. Sorry for the late reply to this, but I've been
on my hols.
Iain
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:39:37 +0100
From: Julia Jones <julia.lysator@jajones.demon.co.uk>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Cc: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
Message-ID: <4W6A05Apf5W5Ewbt@jajones.demon.co.uk>
In message <20000629041204.92870.qmail@hotmail.com>, J MacQueen
<j_macqueen@hotmail.com> writes
>A little akin to Avon chucking himself into the nearest body of water after,
>say, Rumours of Death, if some of you can *ever* imagine his conscience at rest.
>I think those who liked Colin Firth chucking himself into the estate's lake in
>Pride and Prejudice will be sitting up and taking notice about now...
Unfortunately that's his leather period. Leather doesn't cling when wet
quite so fetchingly as say, the black silk shirt in Aftermath.
--
Julia Jones
"Don't philosophise with me, you electronic moron!"
The Turing test - as interpreted by Kerr Avon.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 21:55:46 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Message-ID: <012401bfe3a5$dada1ea0$023e01d5@leanet>
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>
>I will never doubt Una again. Ever.
>
>Morrigan (aka Trish)
So you DO like Animals then !
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:25:46 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Message-ID: <012501bfe3a5$dbee4dc0$023e01d5@leanet>
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From: Ika <
>Right. Now in 'Harvest of Kairos' Jarvik, ....
>
>As you can tell, I really don't know what I'm talking about, but if anyone
can
>tell me how the screens work and why this visual imaging technology should
be
>any more trustworthy than the scanning technology, I'd be grateful.
The actual screens probably work in the same way that TV's, or LCD panels
for PC's work today. The two main ways of geting a signal would be
a) Detect radiation or particles emitted from the object.
b) Detect radiation or particles reflected from the object from a source
mounted on the ship (scanner technology) or another source.
c) Be lazy like Orac, and ask the targets computer for information prepared
previously.
Bare in mind that you don't actually need many photons per second in order
to actually build up an image. There is a lot of background radiation in
space to reflect from the target (visible from stars, cosmic background at 2
cm wavelength or so etc etc)., ask the army, or even astronomers. So yes, it
can be as simple as a very good camera.
But, you are correct, the main screen on the liberator does not display a
direct optical image, but an image processed by the computer. As such it is
equally likely to be inaccurate as any other information the computers
present. I think what Jarvik is refering to is that he has an instinct that
there is a conflict between the two forms of data (main screen and Zen's
verbal report). His instinct is also that the conflict must have arisen
because somebody is trying to trick Zen, and so he believes the data which
presents the weakest image. Of course, it is equally possible that a ship
with a herculanium hull and a capacitively charged brain and advanced
neutron blasters could project an image such as the one seen on the
liberator main screen. Or could even actually look like a lunar module. Why
not ? Who said powerful ships had to look good, the man who designed series
3 Federation cruisers ? On the whole this scene comes down to the theme of
the episode. Servalan believes the direct output of the computer
unquestioningly, and acts to minimise her personal danger. Jarvik interprets
all of the information presented to him, takes into acount the human
element, trusts his instincts, and takes calculated risks.
How about Servalan only stunning Jarvik, rather than killing him, and Jarvik
joining the crew, set on overthrowing a Federation regime so cold, heartless
and dependant on technology ? A three way struggle for control ?
>
>(Also: can voice messages and images be transmitted faster than light in
the B7
>universe? How?)
It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same
way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through
real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or
anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they
travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about
the divergence of the beam.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 2000 22:40:43 +0100
From: "Andrew Ellis" <Andrew.D.Ellis@btinternet.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L]After the revolution (was 'Blake' and beyond)
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From: Ellynne G.
>Sadly, I think Blake saw himself more as a reformer than a revolutionary.
> The Federation may have BECOME evil, but it still payed a certain amount
>of lip service to forms of just government. Blake probably saw himself
>as the man who (eventually, at whatever cost) was removing the evil
>infection and restoring a healthy body.
I might agree with the "removing evil from the healthy body" bit. But
doesn't "healthy body" kind of suggest that the Federation, as such, is not
fundamentally evil, but rather a force for "good", that is suffering from a
degree of corruption ?
>
>The way Robin Hood helped defend good monarchy from
>bad.
>
Lets look at this example as an analogy. The party personified by the
sheriff of Nottingham figure of popular legend abuses his power for personal
comfort and gratification. He builds up a personal power base to further his
own ends. Atrocities are committed by his subordinates in his name. And he
misappropriates taxes. Lets say that makes him Evil. Does the fact that HE
was evil, and that he smashed the quality of life of his subjects, some of
whom were wrongfully denied status and possession (Robin Hood / Earl of
Loxley), necessarily imply that the Feudal system itself was evil. Remember
that Robin appeared to struggle against the Feudal system, not to overthrow
the system, but to restore the rightful king to power.
Gnog
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:53:18 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Julia Lawson--B7 questions
Message-ID: <11.5c4b3c6.268d1f4e@aol.com>
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> >I will never doubt Una again. Ever.
> >
> >Morrigan (aka Trish)
>
> Gnog:
> So you DO like Animals then !
>
I'd be backpedalling frantically were it not for the saving grace that I have
not seen "Animals" (I don't have that video) and therefore I am in no
position to state an opinion. So there.
(I'll get you for that, Andrew. Don't turn your back at
Redemption....mutter, mutter)
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:58:18 EDT
From: B7Morrigan@aol.com
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Screens (the technology of vision)
Message-ID: <69.6faf0c6.268d207a@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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Gnog wrote about message transmission:
> It appears so, but they do appear to travel at a FINITE speed. In the same
> way that the ship travels faster than light ? The signals do pass through
> real space (not other dimensions or temporary wormholes or hyperspace or
> anything), because they can be intercepted. But as well as how fast they
> travel, how do they get them to travel so far. What about loss, what about
> the divergence of the beam.
>
It would seem that there would have to be some sort of regeneration device,
relay stations that boost the signal in some type of hubbing arrangement
rather like long distance tandem switches. Of course, that would give our
heroes some lovely targets; take out the relay stations and cut out an entire
sector's communications with the rest of the galaxy.
Morrigan (aka Trish)
"I don't mind rough. It's fatal I'm not too keen on. "
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:37:25 +0100
From: "DragonFly" <dragonfly@pond65.fsnet.co.uk>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: blakes7-d Digest V00 #182
Message-ID: <009b01bfe27f$2f1fcb40$c758883e@oemcomputer>
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Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply to my questions.
this is going to sound a funny questions (and I am asking on behalf of my
husband) does anyone know Paul Darrow's agent address or where he would
write to him on business level?
whats happening with the proposed film? not heard much about it lately.
Steve (my husband) bought me the Walking with Dinosaurs CD Rom. (I just love
the Paul Darrows insults such as ' You are and evolutionary dead end' ) what
does anyone else think?
Julia - Loughborough
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:41:06 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Message-Id: <4.1.20000629173809.00a69860@mail.powersurfr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 10:51 AM 6/29/00 +0100, Una McCormack wrote:
>in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling
>some very skintight underwear.
You're not talking *prepubescent* here when you say "*very* young", are
you, Una, buddy, pal?
Suspiciously,
Penny
______________________________
"No rules, no naps, no shoes!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 17:49:34 -0600
From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-Id: <4.1.20000629174724.009e6a50@mail.powersurfr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 12:32 PM 6/29/00 +0200, Jacqueline Thijsen wrote:
><bounce> <bounce> <bounce>
>
>Oh this is so great! Can I be bridesmaid? Can I, can I, please, please,
please?
>
><going off to practice "Here comes the bride" with the karaoke machine>
Shouldn't that sound-effect be "<poing> <poing> <poing>"?
--
For A Dread Time, Call Penny:
http://members.tripod.com/~Penny_Dreadful/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 19:42:41 -0400
From: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: "B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <005201bfe223$caaaff00$78019ad8@cgorman>
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Fiona requested :
> > > Hollywood frequently seems to operate, IMO, on the Dr Goebbels
> principle:
> > > that is, that "the intelligence of the public cannot be
underestimated."
> > >
> > Too true. The American Dr. Who shows this off well - chuck in a few car
> > chases, a love intertest and some gangster shootings and the audience
will
> > be happy. Hmmm!!
> >
> > Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> > between Avon and Blake every other episode.
>
> You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!)
Ummm.... I would if I knew what Zenith was... and it was available in
Canada. *s*
Steve Dobson.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 14:00:49 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <000c01bfe220$fba6b2a0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Sally Manton <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:40 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
> <chortle> as distinct from the *only* member of Blake's new group that we
> see, the hardened lowlife desperado named Deva.
To be fair, though, how do you know he's not? Banality of evil, remember--
he could be wiping out thousands of lives every day with a penstroke.
> Class/Nice (Our Heroes), Second Class/Not-So-Nice (theft, assault, being
not
> as pretty as our Heroes)
To quote a Babylon-5 parody I like:
"How do you know the chosen ones?"
"They're in the opening credits, so you can't kill them off..."
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:58:00 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>,
"b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <000b01bfe220$fae66fe0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Dana Shilling <dshilling@worldnet.att.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
> correctly, NOBODY is supposed to know where Star One is, (what genius
> thought THAT up? I think I used to work for him) and the entire
> central computer control for hundreds of planets was supposed to be
entirely
> automated and would have been completely without personnel if a few people
> hadn't volunteered to be stranded there.
Talk about all your eggs in one basket. That scenario is *asking* for
someone with a big ship and a powerful computer to go looking for it...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:58:19 EST
From: "J MacQueen" <j_macqueen@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-ID: <20000630005819.14978.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>From: Penny Dreadful <pennydreadful@powersurfr.com>
> ><bounce> <bounce> <bounce>
>Shouldn't that sound-effect be "<poing> <poing> <poing>"?
I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick
as a means of locomotion. X100
Regards
Joanne
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:08:24 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Christine+Steve" <cgorman@idirect.com>,
"B7 Mailing List" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
Message-ID: <000201bfe220$f238c1e0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Christine+Steve <cgorman@idirect.com>
To: B7 Mailing List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Stuart Jones (was Crew, Models and Liaisons)
> Nyder added
>
>
> > Hollywood frequently seems to operate, IMO, on the Dr Goebbels
principle:
> > that is, that "the intelligence of the public cannot be underestimated."
> >
> Too true. The American Dr. Who shows this off well - chuck in a few car
> chases, a love intertest and some gangster shootings and the audience will
> be happy. Hmmm!!
>
> Can you imagine an American version of B7? Probably have fist fights
> between Avon and Blake every other episode.
You want to read my article in Zenith (plug, plug!)
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:51:44 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>, <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <000a01bfe220$fa156440$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jessica Taylor <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: <Blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
>
>
> Dana wrote:
> I can just imagine Gan leading them in a chorus
> >of "Jerusalem."
>
>
> Did anyone ever write a filk for "Blakes Jerusalem", I'd love to see it.
No, but I once did a short-lived parody cartoon series called "Blake's
Seven," in which William Blake, disgruntled with the London literary life,
collected six romantic poets (Dorothy and William Wordsworth, Mary
Wollstoncraft Shelley, Byron, Keats, Coleridge)and went off to run a poetic
resistance movement from the lakelands. I don't remember much about it other
than that Coleridge wound up being a kind of Vila figure, continually strung
out on laudanum, and Mary Shelley was forever being taken over by divine
entities.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:02:58 EST
From: "Jessica Taylor" <morgaine54@hotmail.com>
To: Blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: [B7L] Blake's Jerusalem
Message-ID: <20000630010258.4025.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
To whoever wrote the Blakes Jerusalem filk,
Thank-you, I seem to have deleted the message a little fast so that I can't
remember who sent it but thank-you just the same.
Jessica
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:34:34 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
"Lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <000501bfe220$f4e8edc0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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I said:
>
> > 4. The Way Back (going to get lynched for this I know, but I like the
> > surrealism, and I think if the series had continued as it started, it
> would
> > have rivalled The Prisoner).
And Una said:
> Not at all. I often think that TWB is an episode from an entirely
different
> programme.
To be honest, that's one thing I do like about "Sarcophagus." As I said it's
not a favourite, mainly cos of the characterisation thing, but the thing
that I do really like about it is that it's so different from the usual sort
of story. Which is why I also have a fondness for stories such as "Killer"
and "Shadow," which, while more within the conventions of B7, tend to depart
from the whole Robin Hood/Che Guevara (depending on if Nation or Boucher's
in charge) In Space scenario.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:47:44 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>, "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Message-ID: <000901bfe220$f9199f20$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Faulkner <N.Faulkner@tesco.net>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
> From: Ellynne G. <rilliara@juno.com>
> > Of the reams of gender power issues stories I've come across, there are
> > the interesting Amazon stories (although Power was an exception, it's
> > interesting that so many show an evil female hierarchy grinding down the
> > males [hence, presenting a surface argument for the guys not to let
> > females get to uppity] but they do this by presenting a role reversal
> > that show the guys suffering an exagerated version of the women's
> > position and finding it truly unjust and unbarable
>
> If you can find it, check out the essay Amor Vincit Foeminam by Joanna
Russ
I'd also recommend "The Gate to Women's Country" by Sheri S. Tepper-- it
looks like it's going to be a run-of-the-mill gender role reversal story,
but then winds up doing weirdly complex things.
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:42:18 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Alison Page" <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>,
"lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
Message-ID: <000401bfe220$f3bace00$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Alison Page <alison@alisonpage.demon.co.uk>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Greco-Roman comedy (back on topic?)
> Interesting post Fiona,
>
> >opinion is
> >currently divided on whether or not carnival type activities act as a
> safety
> >valve or whether they,
> >reinforce the status quo by presenting us
> >with images of what should not be
>
> These are both rational, teleological, explanations, but there is another
> possibility - that there are some human needs that can not be satisfied in
a
> rational way. Perhaps people can't help wanting things that spoil what
they
> have set up.
You're right, of course-- though I do maintain that Cohen's theory about
expressions of identity is less teleological, cos after all what *is*
identity?-- but then anthropology in the UK has a long way to go in terms of
the postmodern revolution.
> It's probably true that the idea behind characters like Vila or Servalan
> supports the status quo. But when they appear on screen they take on a
life
> of their own.
I've been wanting for a long time to do a paper on fictional characters as
social persons (i.e. as social entities in their own right) but haven't had
the time...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:40:46 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>,
"b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <000601bfe220$f59867a0$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Una McCormack <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: b7 <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2000 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
> Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody
alien...
I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque
alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been. "Resist the Host or
your Oneness Will Be Absorbed" has been a catchphrase around my family for
ages (as has "the Host Stirs," mainly when someone staggers down late for
breakfast, somewhat bleary-eyed).
> > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > Best Boots in the entire series.
>
> Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair
> <handbag>
Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with
the Boots!
(um-- Ika? Back me up on this one. Ika? Ika?)
> Did you see 'Star One' on first transmission, Neil? I wonder if I would
love
> it more if I had seen it then.
That seems to happen with some episodes-- there are stories, e.g. The Web,
which had me on the edge of my seat when I was watching them with no idea
what was going to happen next, but which have since lost their attraction.
> > Terminal - bleak bleak bleak bleak bleak
>
> Hmm. 'Dull dull dull dull dull' is usually what springs to mind.
Hee. Have to agree with you there...
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:45:14 +0100
From: "Nyder" <nyder@moore.britishlibrary.net>
To: "Helen Krummenacker" <avona@jps.net>, <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fave episodes/ class status
Message-ID: <000801bfe220$f7fc4840$a61086d4@stx.ox.ac.uk>
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> Vila very clearly and completely outsmarts the two alpha(in both senses,
> I believe) males.
Which reminds me of another class thing that always makes me vaguely
uncomfortable about Vila-- the story, later in the series, that he's got
alpha-grade intelligence but deliberately failed the exams. Which says to me
that a) delta-grade people can't be interesting and intelligent in and of
themselves (if they're intelligent, it's cos they're not really delta
grades); b) delta grades are seen as having the "easy option" workwise, as
opposed to the challenging work of the alphas (I think the Daily Mail would
call Vila workshy), and c) that delta grades are basically dysfunctional
alpha grades (Vila is an underachieving alcoholic, as opposed to the alpha
types who aren't). If you substitute "working class" for "delta grade" in
any of the above, and map it onto the modern UK class system, these begin to
sound like uncomfortably familiar stereotypes.
> safe than he anticipated). Another lower class person, such as Rashel
> from Weapon
I'm not sure one can count Rashel as lower class, as she's a slave. In all
the slaveowning societies that I'm aware of, slaves are kind of outside the
class system entirely, usually cos they're not really considered persons.
Although admittedly we don't find out enough about the slave system in the
Federation to know if that's true or not.
> Power isn't just divided on social class, but also gender. Servalan was
> the only female who habitually gave orders to males, and she was 'evil'.
> Justifying, fictionally, the real power difference between men and women
> in most of society.
Agreed wholeheartedly!
Fiona
Fiona Moore
http://redrival.com/nyder/indexx.html
Resist the Host or your Oneness will be Absorbed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:08:21 -0700
From: mistral@ptinet.net
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-ID: <395BF304.B7D93D96@ptinet.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Joanne wrote:
> I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick
> as a means of locomotion. X100
I will. Heeheeheeheeheehee...
Mistral
--
"Ad hoc, ad loc, and quid pro quo. So little time! So much to know!"
--Jeremy Hilary Boob, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 09:17:49 -0600
From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara@juno.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000629.094845.-104627.0.rilliara@juno.com>
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 23:32:59 -0700 mistral@ptinet.net writes:
>
>
> Ellynne wrote:
>
> > Gan - What we know of his crime suggests it was somewhat
> justified. The
> > basic impression is that his wife or significant other was raped
> and
> > murdered by Federation guards
>
> Can't remember if I've raised this issue before--I'd say this was
> more
> backstory you've hallucinated, if I hadn't seen so many other people
> allude to it. There's nothing on my vids or in the transcripts about
> Gan's
> woman being raped, only killed. Does this idea come from the novels,
> perhaps? As far as I've been able to discover, it's just not canon.
>
Well, I'd heard her refered to as raped and killed before seeing the
episode in which Gan talks about it, so the idea was already entrenched.
Granted, Gan didn't get into specifics, but that could be put down to the
tendency TV once had to be discrete.
OTOH, maybe Gan and his 'woman' were refugees from some serial killer
movie and we _really_ don't want to know the details.
Ellynne
________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 01:08:29 PDT
From: "Sally Manton" <smanton@hotmail.com>
To: blakes7@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Re: [B7L] 'Blake' and beyond
Message-ID: <20000630080829.24357.qmail@hotmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
After I wrote:
<<chortle> as distinct from the *only* member of Blake's new group
that we see, the hardened lowlife desperado named Deva.>
Fiona said (quite correctly):
<To be fair, though, how do you know he's not? Banality of evil,
remember--he could be wiping out thousands of lives every day with a
penstroke.>
Absolutely true. But of course, so could Avon, Jenna or Tarrant have
buckets of blood (enough to wade in) in their past - the fact that
they look like Neil's cuddly munch bunch notwithstanding.
The point I was making is that there's no overt reason to assume that
Blake's new people - the *only* one of whom we see is Deva, who looks
more middle-class and rabbity (in an utterly likable way) than all
the Liberator crew put together - are worse than the old ones, or
the pretty but lethal Scorpio crew.
The only one, after all, who *looks* rather scary is GP Blake himself ...
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Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:20:17 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "lysator" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Croucher in pants
Message-ID: <0da101bfe26d$b3a99010$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Penny wrote:
> At 10:51 AM 6/29/00 +0100, Una McCormack wrote:
>
> >in which a *very* young Brian can be seen stripped to the waist modelling
> >some very skintight underwear.
>
> You're not talking *prepubescent* here when you say "*very* young", are
> you, Una, buddy, pal?
Fret not, Penny. Although the selling of young children into slavery to
textile manufacturers
was, I believe, common in England just after the war, I think that Brian in
these pictures is about 19, possibly early twenties.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:22:03 +0100
From: "Una McCormack" <una@q-research.connectfree.co.uk>
To: "b7" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Fav episodes
Message-ID: <0da201bfe26d$b40ff300$0d01a8c0@codex>
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Fiona wrote:
> > Structurally, intellectually, 'Trial' is a classic. But that bloody
> alien...
>
> I *like* the alien-- one of B7's few goes at doing a really alienesque
> alien, and it wasn't as overdone as it might have been.
Yes, you can fastforward through those bits and still have an episode left
to watch.
Neil/me/Fiona:
> > > There's also Thania, who definitely had the
> > > Best Boots in the entire series.
> >
> > Unfortunately, she also had the Spottiest Chin and the Greasiest Hair
> > <handbag>
>
> Handbags at dawn, McCormack! I shall rise to the defence of the Bimbo with
> the Boots!
I watched it back last night, just to make sure I wasn't being unjust. Trust
me. Zits galore.
Una
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:23:21 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: B7 List <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: Traves
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630101541.00a8b100@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 03:08 30-6-00, mistral@ptinet.net wrote:
>Joanne wrote:
>
> > I will not, I repeat, I will not imagine Jacqueline employing a pogo stick
> > as a means of locomotion. X100
>
>I will. Heeheeheeheeheehee...
<poing> <poing> <poing> <steps off pogo stick and directs stern look
towards the audience>
And what, exactly, is so funny about using a pogo stick to move around?
<holding teletubbies tapes ready to deal firmly with the first one who
sniggers>
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:25:29 +0200
From: Jacqueline Thijsen <inquisitioner@wish.net>
To: lysator <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Re: FC: Back from the conference
Message-Id: <4.3.1.0.20000630102403.00a8ca10@pop3.wish.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 18:45 29-6-00, Iain Coleman wrote:
>I could happily burble on at much greater length about that, but I'm
>afraid I don't have time right now. Get me a beer sometime and I'll reveal
>all.
That's three beers in all that you've managed to get out of us before
redemption has even started.
Jacqueline
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:01:58 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: [B7L] Re: fav episodes
Message-ID: <200006300502_MC2-AAB1-A302@compuserve.com>
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charset=ISO-8859-1
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Neil wrote:
>My least favourite Narnia saga too, as it happens, though
>I think it's the overt Christian propaganda that puts me off.
So what's your favourite Narnian episode? Mine is The Silver Chair.
Harriet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 05:01:52 -0400
From: Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:blakes7@lysator.liu.se" <blakes7@lysator.liu.se>
Subject: Re: [B7L] Ace and Dayna
Message-ID: <200006300502_MC2-AAB1-A301@compuserve.com>
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Ellynne wrote:
> There was a certain, very evil entity (Fenris, I think, or
>something like that)
Fenric.
Ooh, that was a lovely episode. Especially the scene where Ace distracts
the sentry with the monologue that includes "Sometimes I move so fast..." I
hadn't the faintest idea what she was on about, but it sounded wonderful.
*I'd* have been distracted.
Only it should have been the revelation about the baby that broke her down,
not apparent rejection by the Doctor.
Harriet
--------------------------------
End of blakes7-d Digest V00 Issue #183
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